DK35SE steering problem....any ideas?

[Starks]

I seem to have lost effective steering today on my 56 hour DH35SE HST.

I was using a 5ft Bush Hog Squealer around the property when I "discovered" a yellow jacket's nest in some thick brush. After the first two pops I quickly reversed about 30 feet, threw the throttle down and killed the switch. After battling with the little bastards for a while I was ready to get back to work.

I quickly discovered that I had little to no steering and the wheel would rotate endlessly in either direction. FEL and 3pt worked fine and I couldn't find any leaks...fluid level was fine. It would randomly steer some, and most often I would turn the wheel and get some steering but the wheels would slip back toward neutral while I was holding the wheel in one place. Was able to creep back to shelter where I looked more thoroughly and could still find no leaks.

A: little to no steering
B: wheel will make continual rotation in either direction with no "stop"
C: FEL and 3pt seem fine

Any ideas??? Something simple like a fuse would be preferred (kidding, I know it's not a fuse).

Thanks in advance.

 

[IslandTractor]

I have no experience but do have the workshop manual in front of me. Under "steering wheel free play" in troubleshooting they list the following :

Loose steering wheel mounting nut
Leakage in steering unit or damage in steering unit
Leakage in steering cylinder
Air in steering system or no hydraulic fluid
Blown whatchamacallit fuse (joke joke)

Hope that helps.

 

[Starks]

Thanks for the reply. Do you know if the steering system uses the main hydraulic system's fluid and pump for operation? If so, I just recently did my 50 hour service and am wondering if there could be air trapped. Interestingly I drained almost exactly 11 gallons during the service but when I put 11 back in it read overfull on the stick which might jibe with trapped air not allowing all of the new fluid to settle everywhere thus raising the indicated level on the dipstick.

I wonder if there is a bleeder screw on the steering rack to check for air, or you need to crack one of the two feed line fittings.

 

[IslandTractor]

I'll check the manual and get back to you.

 

[IslandTractor]

Steering system is tied in to the main tractor hydraulics. I cannot find reference to a bleeder screw/valve in any of the fairly detailed exploded diagrams.

 

[IslandTractor]

Not sure if this iPhone photo is useful. Let me know if there is a specific diagram that would help.

 

[MotorSeven]

I am thinking that "quickly reversed for 30' in heavy brush" might have something to do with this. Crawl under there & double check every plug wire & hyrdo connection. I have had more stuff deranged by an errant stick(especially going backeards) than.....well....than you can shake a stick at!

RD

 

[IslandTractor]

I am thinking that "quickly reversed for 30' in heavy brush" might have something to do with this.

RD

Very good point. I lost 4wd suddenly while bush hogging and it turned out to be a simple disconnection of electrics under the operator station. I don't recall electrics having anything to do with steering though but it would be worth checking.

 

[Starks]

Thanks for the suggestions but no luck so far. I took the cover off of the steering column and have traced the lines from the valve block assembly to the steering cylinder. Definitely no leaks or apparent damage anywhere. If I lift the front of the tractor off the ground with the loader, the wheels will turn. When they're on the ground the they will intermittently turn.

Am I remembering correctly that when the wheel is turned to full lock there should be a hard stop and you can't turn the wheel any farther? I can spin the wheel indefinitely in either direction.

Anyone know anything about tearing down and / or repairing the steering valve assembly?

 

[IslandTractor]

Anyone know anything about tearing down and / or repairing the steering valve assembly?

Aren't you still under warranty?

Otherwise, the workshop manual will give you pretty detailed instructions including excellent cartoons and exploded parts diagrams. There is at least one special tool required.

 

[Starks]

Warranty yes, I bought it new this year from the closest dealer which is over an hour away. If someone told me that they had had the same problem and repaired it themselves fairly simply then I'd probably choose that over the hassle of transporting with a rented trailer twice. I'll give my dealer a yell in the AM.

 

[Highbeam]

The "hard stop" you refer to is when the wheels come up against their stops on the axle housing. The steering wheel isn't attached to a gear or linkage with a "hard stop" it's all hydraulic. You might have noticed that the Kioti symbol on your steering wheel seems to never be in the same place when you're traveling straight. That's because you have a fluid link between the steering wheel and the tires.

I've lost hydrualic pressure a couple of times, darn sticks removing my filter, and the steering goes away along with the FEL, HST, and 3pt control. Since you only lost one, it is not a fluid level or condition issue.

Isn't the steering powered by its own hydro pump? Shares the sump with the main hydro pump?

 

[lilranch2001]

Warranty yes, I bought it new this year from the closest dealer which is over an hour away. If someone told me that they had had the same problem and repaired it themselves fairly simply then I'd probably choose that over the hassle of transporting with a rented trailer twice. I'll give my dealer a yell in the AM.

I wouldnt mess with it under warranty, all you are doing is putting your warranty at risk on the rest of the hydro unit

 

[Starks]

She went to the dealer today. I'll relay what they find.

 

[Starks]

Update: Got her back from the dealer on Monday. Looks like a bad steering cylinder was the problem, replaced and working fine now.

 

[o2batsea]

It's a good thing to have work done under warranty, not just for the peace of mind it gives you. If your problem uncovers an inherent defect with the model that would generate a recall it would be of great interest and benefit to other owners. You never know...

 

[dfkrug]

Update: Looks like a bad steering cylinder was the problem, replaced and working fine now.

Interesting. Since the steering cyls are single-acting, that would mean that
the bad one had to be spewing oil from the breather or gland when it was
pushing and the steering should work better in one direction vs the other.

You saw no sign of either symptom?

 

[Starks]

No, it was acting the same in either direction. I noticed you said cylinders (plural).....interestingly when the dealer's driver brought it back he mentioned that my tractor only had one single cylinder as opposed to two which they were used to seeing. When I was messing with it, it sure looked like one big cylinder to me with a line going to each end from the steering valve block.

Any other DK35SE owner's out there want to comment on their steering gear....one or two cylinders? Maybe a running change in production? If so I hope my problem was a fluke and not a sign of a general problem.....

 

[lilranch2001]

did they disassemble the cylinder to see what was wrong?
I would have thought that even a defective cyclinder would still have some steering ability unless the whole rod packing blew off

 

[dfkrug]

he mentioned that my tractor only had one single cylinder as opposed to two which they were used to seeing. When I was messing with it, it sure looked like one big cylinder to me with a line going to each end from the steering valve block.....

That is interesting. ISLAND's parts diagram above shows 2 SA cyls, just
like my CK30 has. If you have only one, you are right, it is DA, and what I
said would not apply. I wonder if there are 2 variants. I bought 2 CK30s
at the same time and the two has some minor differences.