DK 40 Starter Question

drjay9051 · Nov 30, 2018

In the past I have had a bad relay for the starter. i believe that is the proper terminology for the small black box on the firewall. My nearest dealer (60 miles) suggested jumping the 2 terminals of the starter with a screwdriver till i got new relay. Worked like a charm .

Not really clear on terminology as I am a veterinarian and fix animals not tractors.

Today another starter problem. It sounds like the relay clicks but no start when I turn key. tractor in neutral, PTO off.

I tried to jump the starter terminals and initially i get the same sound as last jump but then nothing. Almost sounds like the starter is "seized up".

Best description is when i jump I get the Clicking/grinding sound as starter turns but after a second just seems to strain. I have a noise but not clicking.

Any thoughts on this?

If sounds like starter would be cheaper to buy starter for $100 as opposed to house call from dealer. If not starter I guess I am stuck with a new starter that maybe I can sell?

gimmodog · Nov 30, 2018

sounds like a dead battery

drjay9051 · Nov 30, 2018

Horn, lights work but it's a thought. I'll check it out.

grsthegreat · Nov 30, 2018

I agree with battery issue. You need to test battery under a load while starting. ive had batteries showing 12.4 volts resting...but drop to 5 during a start.

Kioti Paul · Nov 30, 2018

I agree with gimmodog, it sounds like it is time for a new battery. Try turning on the headlights, then do the "jump" trick; if the headlights get real dim (but do not go completely out), I would say the odds are overwhelming that your battery is shot, or been drained for some reason. If the lights do go out completely (immediately, not a 'slow fade out') you may well have a corroded connection at one of the battery cable connections,,,or it might still be from a bad battery.

From the given symptoms, you can't rule out something wrong with the charging circuit; or, like you say, the starter itself (would be VERY unusual). Maybe a switch was left on, & drained the battery??

It is very difficult to give sound advice, when you can't actually 'get your hands' on the tractor. If you are not familiar with performing voltage drop checks, it comes down to "best guess". At this point, if your battery is more than a couple of years old, bad battery would be my "best guess".

Also, the small black box you referenced on the firewall is the starter relay. There is (probably) another one right beside it?? These relays are identical, the second one operates your glow plugs. In a pinch, you can "swap" those relays, to see if it 'restores' your starting ability. Being from Florida, you could probably get by without the glow plugs until you can get a new relay. (If you have a strong battery).

I have read in several of these threads that these are very common relays, available at most any Auto Parts Store. Take the bad one in, & see if you can find a 'good' counter person who will take the time to match up the plug. So far, I have not had one fail, so I can't offer advice on brand and part number of the relay.

Coyote machine · Nov 30, 2018

In vet terminology, the tractor is a 7 year old dog. You check to make sure its heart has blood flowing and the dog is breathing, right? Dog heart = tractor battery.

Either test the battery in place, by using a VOM, (volt/ohm,meter) set at 12 Volts DC and see what reading you get at the battery POSTS, NOT the cable ends attached to the battery, with the ignition key in off position and note the reading, (+/- 12 V or less, then read the voltage when the key is turned to and held momentarily at crank position.
You will have to have someone hold the meter on the battery posts while you, or they turn the key. If the voltage drops way low, as stated already, turn off the key and look for corrosion where the negative battery cable fastens to the chassis/frame of the tractor. If no corrosion is visible and none is present just below the plastic sheathing of the cable, then remove the battery and take it to a auto store to have it charged up and then load tested after it sits for 1/2 hour minimum. If the battery fails replace it with an Interstate of same size and CCA and other specs as the original battery.

So without a good flow of 'blood', a dog dies; the tractor won't start, is dead without adequate reserve amps, (current) to 'flow' from the battery to the starter to crank over the engine. When a battery gets old the useful life diminishes, and if there is high resistance at the ground and or positive cables going to/from the battery, (clogged arteries, in dog speak) the heart (tractor battery) may not/doesn't have enough electrical energy to crank over the starter.

You've been helping jump start your tractor's starter by using a screwdriver to make a 'better' electrical connection at the starter, and it's worked until the electrical circuit has not been able to produce enough juice to spin the starter. Most likely suspect: worn out/worn down/dead battery, and or connections, (cables) going to it or other parts of the ignition circuit, relay(s), etc.

The good news is, the dog will live once you repair/replace the defective component.
Victory for all! Good save doc!:thumbsup:

drjay9051 · Nov 30, 2018

Coyote machine said:
In vet terminology, the tractor is a 7 year old dog. You check to make sure its heart has blood flowing and the dog is breathing, right? Dog heart = tractor battery.

Either test the battery in place, by using a VOM, (volt/ohm,meter) set at 12 Volts DC and see what reading you get at the battery POSTS, NOT the cable ends attached to the battery, with the ignition key in off position and note the reading, (+/- 12 V or less, then read the voltage when the key is turned to and held momentarily at crank position.
You will have to have someone hold the meter on the battery posts while you, or they turn the key. If the voltage drops way low, as stated already, turn off the key and look for corrosion where the negative battery cable fastens to the chassis/frame of the tractor. If no corrosion is visible and none is present just below the plastic sheathing of the cable, then remove the battery and take it to a auto store to have it charged up and then load tested after it sits for 1/2 hour minimum. If the battery fails replace it with an Interstate of same size and CCA and other specs as the original battery.

So without a good flow of 'blood', a dog dies; the tractor won't start, is dead without adequate reserve amps, (current) to 'flow' from the battery to the starter to crank over the engine. When a battery gets old the useful life diminishes, and if there is high resistance at the ground and or positive cables going to/from the battery, (clogged arteries, in dog speak) the heart (tractor battery) may not/doesn't have enough electrical energy to crank over the starter.

You've been helping jump start your tractor's starter by using a screwdriver to make a 'better' electrical connection at the starter, and it's worked until the electrical circuit has not been able to produce enough juice to spin the starter. Most likely suspect: worn out/worn down/dead battery, and or connections, (cables) going to it or other parts of the ignition circuit, relay(s), etc.

The good news is, the dog will live once you repair/replace the defective component.
Victory for all! Good save doc!:thumbsup:

Appreciate the analogy.

Surgery scheduled for tomorrow ( cardiac transplant)

Thanks

ritcheyvs · Nov 30, 2018

Do yourself a favor and isolate the problem before wasting money (and someone's time) replacing a starter that's probably OK. Many starting problems have been reported here and I don't recall any that were actually a bad starter. I would guess you have a bad battery or corroded battery cable (typically under the insulation where you can't see it). Good advice above, especially watching headlights while trying to run starter and voltmeter on battery posts while trying to start.

swnoel · Dec 2, 2018

What did you find out? It would be nice if those that start these threads would be so kind to come back and respond to what solved the problem.

northcreek2624 · Dec 4, 2018

My money is on a bad starter, you have all the symptoms. The starter armature may be dragging the fields due to bad bushings (main cause of starter failures), this causes high amps which will kill a relay. On the gear models (don't know about HST) there is a drain plug below the clutch to drain trapped water. If this is left unattended under the right conditions you might submerge the starter and that can never be good.