Oil & Fuel Dire fuel predictions

DaveNay · May 17, 2004

In my opinion there is only one long term solution.

Long term....not short term. There still plenty of problems to be solved.

Dave

texbaylea · May 17, 2004

Dave
I agree wholeheartedly! I am a biophysicist retired from NASA so I understand the biological processes as well as the physical. If we did not have all the econuts sounding out about something they do not have the smarts to understand, we might have a sustainable economy in nuclear/hydrogen power. I know of some gas fired electric generating plants that put out substantially more radioactive gasses the nuclear power plants.

The econuts and Hollywood grade D moves have planted the idea of weird mutations and mushroom clouds.

jpm · May 17, 2004

Biodiesel is starting to look good now the price is very close

DaveNay · May 17, 2004

( Biodiesel is starting to look good now the price is very close )

True! I saw a show on PBS recently that had some absolutely staggering statistics regarding the amount of corn produced in the United States. I'm not going to try to quote a production number, but it was literaly jaw dropping. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Dave

California · May 18, 2004

( they do not have the smarts to understand )

I was one of many, a majority, who voted to close Rancho Seco nuclear plant, the only one shut down by a vote of its customers so far as I know.

The last straw for this econut was when it was revealed that radioactivity leaving the premises via a small seasonal creek was about 20 times larger than publically stated. The biophysicists responsible for monitoring runoff were cynically reporting their one-hour observation as the 24 hour quantity because what they saw in an hour nearly exceeded the 24 hour federal standard.

My concern was partly biology but more important, a lack of belief overall that anyone there knew what they were doing. While another 3 Mile Island was unlikely, that was caused by ignorant operators and Rancho Seco seemed to be full of them.

The ongoing controversy that led to the referendum was Rancho Seco's poor uptime. I don't think it ever ran during peak demand season. It had overhaul after overhaul without solving some fundamental reliability flaws. Nuclear-powered electricity, including the waste disposal costs that continue today years after the shutdown, cost far more than other sources.

At the time it felt like riding the Titantic all the way down - there was no good news in sight, just more plans to spend far more money before it could meet licensing standards and get back on line. No one was optomistic it would run very long this time before some new unexpected failure like it always did.

I don't think it was the ratepayers who lacked smarts, rather the nuclear energy engineers who sold this turkey to us revealed themselves to be incompetent fools.

Not in my back yard, thanks.

kensfarm · May 18, 2004

Has anyone seen what Changing World Technology is doing...

http://www.changingworldtech.com/techfr.htm

"CONVERTING TURKEY OFFAL INTO BIO-DERIVED HYDROCARBON OIL WITH THE CWT THERMAL PROCESS"

"The CWT Thermal Process (CWT-TP) converts organic materials into clean fuels, fertilizers,
and specialty chemicals. Waste, by-products, or low-grade organic material go into the CWT-TP
process and three or more separate streams come out: a clean fuel-gas, light organic liquid, and
solid products that can be used as fuel, fertilizer, or adsorbent carbon."

KiotiJohn · May 19, 2004

I saw the CEO and Chairman of Exxon Mobile on television last week. He stated that there is no real justification for the prices being so high. He also stated that his company could get all the oil they might desire, billions and billons of barrels. As to supply and demand, he stated that the current pricing is not justified under that theory. When asked why the prices are so high then, he stated, "I don't know." John

fivestring · May 19, 2004

"So really the tax money is just going to the state to fund who knows what and the education budget still stays the same. I was pretty shocked when I found this out." 

You are kidding about not knowing, right???

Here in NC:
Court costs from citations goes to the school systems.
Proceeds from police auctions goes to the school systems.
Proceeds from seized and auctioned vehicles goes to the .... you guessed it.

I guess this is why NC doesn't have a lottery yet. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
They can't justify more money going into a mediocre system. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

varmint · May 21, 2004

Some additional rants on fuel costs: has anyone considered the fact that China is starting to consume a larger percentage of the worlds oil? Since it's a limited commodity, you can expect the price to be going up (and up). I don't know just how much, but I can report that I've read that China consumed about 30% or all the raw steel produced last year, and appears to be headed close to 40% for this year. No wonder that structural steel costs about $1.40 a pound now- it was 50 cents not that long ago. As for bio-fuels, you have to remember that it takes a lot of fertilizer and fuel to make corn, and a lot of federal subsidies are paid to producers... so the net output isn't so good. Maybe if we started using less per person we'd have less to complain about. Anyway, when I think that gas was 25 cents a gallon, I was earning about $1 and hour. Lets see.... one hour=four gallons. About the same today, for entry level jobs?

cowboydoc · May 21, 2004

Minimum wage is $5.10/hr. At current rates for fuel you could only buy 2.5 gallons now compared to four gallons back then.

varmint · May 21, 2004

You're probably right for many areas of the country- around here in Maryland, Mac jobs and Wally world pays about $8/hour, I believe.

Ledgemere Farm · May 21, 2004

Whatever happened to gasahol anyway? Can't even get it up north. Let me guess: THE OIL COMPANIES BOUGHT UP ALL THE RIGHTS ON IT???

MikePA · May 21, 2004

Let me guess: THE OIL COMPANIES BOUGHT UP ALL THE RIGHTS ON IT???

Yep. They keep the documentation about this activity in the same hanger where they keep the black helicopters and the plans for the 100 mpg carburetor. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Ole_Hickory · May 21, 2004

LOL /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

To20Chris · May 21, 2004

The problem with a lot of the alternative fuels is that it takes more money or fossil fuels to make them than you get back. I'm pretty sure ethanol is one of those cases. In other words, you would be better off just burning the oil. The only answer in the short term is to figure out ways to use less energy.

KiotiJohn · May 22, 2004

( has anyone considered the fact that China is starting to consume a larger percentage of the worlds oil? Since it's a limited commodity, you can expect the price to be going up (and up). )
With the new affluence of the Chinese, more and more of her consumers are able to buy cars. With their population, imagine on what a scale it will be! Both steel and gas will be needed in an amount unheard of for one country. The US's previous high use of the resources will surely pale in comparison since China has billions of people, not hundreds of millions as in the US. Another commodity that I would not have thought of is concrete. There are only a few MFGs out there and lately, many of the ships that were scheduled to come here are being diverted to China. This has created quite a headache for one local company who is, I believe, only one of two Concrete MFG in the US. Order backlogs have gone from one day to around 3 weeks now and getting worse. This is history folks, it's what the rest of the world watched the US do, but won't ever see again. John

DaveNay · May 22, 2004

I spent three weeks in China in 2001, and I can tell you one thing. They have a LOOOOONGGG WAY TO GO. There are certain areas of growth in China, and some very specific projects, like the Three Gorges Dam and the Bejing Olympics, but other than that the majority of the country is like the worst part of the United States you can think of, and then divided that by ten again. There are basically two classes of people in China (excluding the major cities like Beijing, Shanghai and Hong Kong)...the haves and the have nots. There really is no middle class. Out in the country, if a family is lucky to have a vehicle, then it looked to me like it was a 25 year old 150cc motorcycle. And most of the roads look like BMX dirt tracks.

Is there potential for vast tecnological resource usage? Beyond a doubt. But it is going to be a real challenge, and possibly require some social and government restructuring before it can happen. If they do thoug, watch your shorts, because they will be vaccuuming the planet dry.

Dave

OkeeDon · May 22, 2004

( The real scary thing is 50% of the mineral/oil rights in this country are owned by foreign investors. 20% of the land in the west is owned by foreign investors. They are playing havoc with the farming/ranching industry. They come in and buy the land, close out all watering, bid up government leases so nobody can afford them and then just leave the land idle. )

Ah. Waiting for what, I wonder? What do they see that we don't?