Digging up a dead horse to kick again....Cub Cadet Drive System Fluid Plus x-ref

Matt NEOhio · Apr 21, 2011

Hi to everyone...I am new to the community but have lurked here for quite a while reading tons of interesting posts that are on this site. I finally felt the need to sign up so that I can beat a dead horse a little more. I have a CC 5254 and it has 360 hours on it. I changed the Hydrostatic/Hydraulic oil in 2006 right after I purchased the tractor when it had 124 hours on it. Not sure of the model year but the serial # is 1D304G30008 (maybe 2004???).

I have always replaced the filters every spring and kept it topped of with the CC "Liquid Gold" oil. This averages out to about 50-60 hours between filter changes.

Since it has been 5 years and 235 hours since the last hydro oil change, I am starting to get "antsy" as I am very diligent on maintenance. The CC manual says to change the oil every 200 hours!!

Now for the dead horse kicking event! I have read hundreds of posts on this forum and several others concerning the quest for a "perfect" replacement oil for the Drive System Fluid Plus oil and I am getting more confused by the day :confused2:

The following list is what I have compiled that other people have been using for a "replacement":

Shell Rotella T Non-Synthetic 15W-40
Shell Rotella T6 Full Synthetic 5W-40
Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 20W-50
Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 15W-50
Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 5W-40
Amsoil Full Synthetic 5W-30 Tractor Hyd/Trans Oil

So, I got in my truck today and drove 25 miles to a CC dealer and talked to their mechanic. He happened to be heading back out to the shop and saw me staring (in disbelief) at the $41.00 gallons of CC DSFP oil. He asked if I needed help, and I asked him if this was the ONLY oil that I could use on my 5254. He laughed and said (very quietly) that the oil from CC is plain old 10W-30 Full Synthetic oil and that is what they put in them when they are serviced at their shop.

So, I guess I can add 1 more specification to the list of the 6 others listed above! :confused2::confused2::confused2:

Since I live in NE Ohio, I also talked to him about the the winter months when I am plowing snow. My tractor is quite sluggish for the first 15-20 minutes until it begins to warm up. I asked if I could possibly go with 5W-30 to help with this issue. He said that he highly recommends AGAINST that idea. He said to stick with the 10W-30 Synthetic and let the tractor sit and idle for 10-15 minutes before I get on it and take off plowing.

Sorry for being so long winded here! I was just wondering if any of ya'll have any comments on all of this rambling??

Some of the posts I have read in the past are from 4-5 years ago and I was curious to see if anyone who made the switch that long ago is still using their oil of choice and if they have experienced any issues??

jnelson · Apr 21, 2011

I have a 6284 that also specifies CC fluid or Super UDT. You will need to check closer on the specs in your owners manual but I think we are talking about the same thing here. I found Mystik JT-5 that appears to satisfy all of the requirements.

Here is a link to the product specs for Mystik JT-5 http://docs.mystiklubes.com/msds_pi/M20014.pdf .

Note the references to
Quote: Meets the performance requirements for Sundstrand Hydrostatic Transmission Fluid (HTF)
and
Quote: Kubota Super UDT; UDT

The hydro in the 6284 is a Sundstrand unit and the Cub manual specs SUDT rating so the Mystik JT-5 appears to satisfy the requirements both ways. I don't remember what I paid for it at TSC but I do recall that it was a substantial savings over purchasing the fluid with the Cub brand name on it.

The mechanic could very well be right, but if a hydro fails because of the wrong fluid it's no skin off their behinds and they might even get some additional business because of it. I don't like spending any more than I have to for anything, but I do want to be sure that what I save doesn't end up costing me more in the long run either.

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

JN

Bob_Bainbridge · Apr 21, 2011

jnelson said:
I have a 6284 that also specifies CC fluid or Super UDT. You will need to check closer on the specs in your owners manual but I think we are talking about the same thing here. I found Mystik JT-5 that appears to satisfy all of the requirements.

Here is a link to the product specs for Mystik JT-5 http://docs.mystiklubes.com/msds_pi/M20014.pdf .

Note the references to
Quote: Meets the performance requirements for Sundstrand Hydrostatic Transmission Fluid (HTF)
and
Quote: Kubota Super UDT; UDT

The hydro in the 6284 is a Sundstrand unit and the Cub manual specs SUDT rating so the Mystik JT-5 appears to satisfy the requirements both ways. I don't remember what I paid for it at TSC but I do recall that it was a substantial savings over purchasing the fluid with the Cub brand name on it.

The mechanic could very well be right, but if a hydro fails because of the wrong fluid it's no skin off their behinds and they might even get some additional business because of it. I don't like spending any more than I have to for anything, but I do want to be sure that what I save doesn't end up costing me more in the long run either.

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

JN

The Mystik JT-5 doesn't appear to be a synthetic oil My dealer said that Cub switched to a synthetic for better transmission operation. If you switch to a non-synthetic the older HyTran fluid could be used at a much cheaper cost. They make a HyTran Ultra SSL synthetic fluid but I don't know the specs.

Bob B.

jnelson · Apr 22, 2011

Bob, thanks for that information. I think that it is generally accepted that synthetic fluids are superior to petroleum based products. That said, manuals (my Cub manual included) make no distinction between synthetic and petroleum products but stick to ratings such as Super ULTRA and a large variety of acronyms.

Judging from the published ratings it does appear that the Mystik JT-5 qualifies as suitable for service in my 6284. Based on your information it sounds like one could go one step better by finding a synthetic product with the same or higher ratings. It would not surprise me that much more common (and less expensive) products could work well also. But given the hydro issues Cubs are known for I would not want to use anything not rated at the recommendations listed in the service manuals.

It would be nice if there was a way to simplify it all. I don't doubt that a certain amount of the complexity is intentional in order to sell more branded product.

JN

Matt NEOhio · Apr 22, 2011

Thanks JN & Bob B....

I will add Mystik JT-5 to the list of possibilities! JN...how long ago did you switch to this oil? The properties of this oil sure are quite close to the CC oil...I am just not quite sure about it being non-synthetic though

as the mechanic I talked to yesterday said that synthetic was a "must".

I sent Mystik tech support an email asking for their recommendations...I don't know if anyone here has done that yet, but figured it wouldn't hurt to try. I figure it will be at least Monday before I receive any reply from them due to the long holiday weekend. I'll post it if and when I receive. I also sent a requests to Amalie Oil Company and Royal Purple Oil Company.

Again, thanks for the help! :thumbsup:

Matt NEOhio · Apr 22, 2011

FYI....got a reply from Amalie Oil Company today...keep striking out

:

We do not have an exact match for the fluid you require. Our Amalie All-Trac 245 Universal Tractor fluid is as close as we can come, but it is not a full synthetic fluid.
Thanks for your interest in our company and our quality products!

Dennis J. Madden
Senior Vice President,
Global Sales and Marketing
Amalie Oil Company

Matt NEOhio · Apr 23, 2011

Amalie sent a second reply:

One thing that I failed to mention is that the fluid that you require is slightly more viscous (thicker) than our All-Trac 245.

Thanks!

Dennis J. Madden

Senior Vice President,

Global Sales and Marketing

Amalie Oil Company

jnelson · Apr 25, 2011

I don't suppose that CC would respond to questions regarding this except to recommend their own branded product. That leads me to wonder if the manufacturer of the hydro unit (Sundstrand) might be willing to comment. I don't know if they manufactured the unit in your 5254 but they did make the 6284 unit. Might be worth trying.

JN

Matt NEOhio · Apr 25, 2011

Latest email.... a reply from Royal Purple:

Good Morning,

All of my research shows that the Cub Cadet Hydrostatic fluid is likely a synthetic multi-viscosity 40 weight oil and many Cub Cadet owners report that a multi-viscosity 40 weight motor oil works great for them. For this we recommend Royal Purple SAE 10W-40 (part #01140, quart bottle).

Thanks for considering Royal Purple and have a great day!

Best Regards,
Christopher Barker
Technical Services
Royal Purple, Inc.

jakell2010 · Apr 25, 2011

Hi

I just had my tranny rebuilt on my 5264D,,,,and spoke to the dealer about it (your conversation here),,,,his reply was that full synthetic (quality FULL synthetic) is not that much less $10-15.00/gal

Mobil 1 at sears is $8/qt that's $32/gal

mobil 1 6 pak is $63 on amazon

Penzoil is $7

These are prices off NexTag

I just put $1400 into the rebuild, and saving $40,,,$10 on 4 gal,,,,is not worth the experiment of finding out.

Yes the CC/Yanmar Hyd fluid is over priced, but it is what is speced