Digging a small pond with FEL?

backyardman · Apr 27, 2005

My second question! Can it be done? What do you guys think? Maybe with a tooth bar, and a lot of time? /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

bdog · Apr 27, 2005

How small is small? If you are talking something the size of a truck and not very deep go for it. If you are talking something bigger it would be possible but would take forever. Most people seriously underestimeate the amount of dirt that must be removed for a pond. For example to make a pond 50' by 50' that is 2' deep you would have to remove 185 cubic yards of dirt. I would guess your bucket is less than a half yard so you are looking at around 400 bucket fulls of dirt to be moved and this is just for 2' deep and 50' square.

backyardman · Apr 27, 2005

Wow bdog! I think you just talked me out of it!! Once you look at those numbers, and the pond being about 100' X 75' and about 7-10 ft. deep - FORGET IT! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

bdog · Apr 27, 2005

Yep - That would take about 5600 buckets of dirt to make a hole that big. Say you moved a bucket every 2 minutes. That is 30 per hour. That would take you 187 hours or 23.5 8 hour days. You could do it, but it would take forever. Big digging jobs like that are much better left for large equipment. I have watched big dozers dig in ground storage tanks and it even takes them a while.

bdog · Apr 27, 2005

Also don't forget what are you going to do with the dirt? If you did dig it you would have huge pile of dirt.

sweettractors · Apr 27, 2005

There are ways to do it with that equipment. Find a valley or in your farm that has a good watershed. Move the dirt to the lower end and make a dam--This will reduce your time by 2/3 or more.--Ken Sweet

KenVT · Apr 27, 2005

Hire a bulldozer, the pond on our property is around 80x80, The Dozer just shoved everything to the edge and made his own banks, and this guy was good, he 'eyeballed' the whole thing.(Banks were all level)...No transit, and it was <8hrs.

Ken

sweettractors · Apr 27, 2005

I have Cat D3B dozer that gets $75 per hr and 8 hrs would only be $600 for the pond. However, That takes all the fun out of doing it with the Tractor and FEL and making sure "Mama" knows that the Toys...er... Tractors, are paying for thier keep--Ken Sweet

backyardman · Apr 27, 2005

All good advice guys. As far as the dirt, I am able to grade that out to other "lower" parts of the yard, but I'm not in a situation to build a dam - wish I could. Anyone know a reasonable dozer opertor in Chesapeake, VA? I'll use the JD to move the excavated dirt and still have fun /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif!

bdog · Apr 27, 2005

I would hire a big dozer. At work I subcontract out over 1000 hours of dozer time a year. We can get big Cat D8's for $85/hr or D6's for $75 hr. Get a big dozer and they can do it in about 1/3 of the time of a small dozer and the hourly rate is not that much different. You have your tractor to do the small finish work. I am not really sure how exactly the numbers work on the dozers but the bigger the number the bigger the dozer. A D3 is about the size of a pickup or slightly smaller. A D8 is a monster and needs an oversize permit to be hauled on a 18 wheeler. For what we use them for anything less than a D5 is too small for the job. I would recommend at least a D5.

have_blue · Apr 27, 2005

The digging part is very easy. Just plow it up and skim it with the FEL. Only takes 20 seconds per scoop! Unfortunately it then takes up to several minutes to go pile up or spread each scoop. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

wushaw · Apr 27, 2005

I concure with the bulldozer for pond building. I had been digging out one of my ponds with a 4ft. box blade in my spare time for the past three summers /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
I have a little bigger tractor now and a 66" box blade, I will be done this summer, I am tired of digging in the same hole /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Dargo · Apr 27, 2005

Well now. I had the same idea about 10 years ago. It didn't take long to figure that I wasn't going to get it done with my CUT. So, I bought a Cat 955 high lift and a single axle dump truck with a 5.5 cubic yard bed. I also borrowed a farmer and his pan on some weekends. Two years later I still really didn't have much to speak of; other than a pretty good working knowledge of how to operate a small dozer and how to repair one. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

You see, I didn't have the knowledge to calculate exactly how much dirt I needed to move. To make matters worse, I kept increasing the size I wanted. I ended up renting an excavator with a 1 3/4 yard bucket, taking 2 weeks off, borrowing and renting 3 additional dump trucks, paying everyone I could find to drive the dump trucks, and working 12 hour days for those 2 weeks. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

In all, after I had an engineer help me and offer some very slight suggestions, I moved just over 34,000 cubic yards of dirt! My pond is about 1 1/4 acres big and goes to around 18' deep. Figure how many buckets from a CUT that would have taken with an average dump distance of 250 yards to dump each bucket!

GerardC · Apr 27, 2005

Some jobs are better off left to hired hands. Unless you want to do this as a hobby and have the time, hire it out. You'll be glad you did.

backyardman · Apr 27, 2005

No doubt. I've already made my mind up about having a dozer do it after looking at the numbers that bdog threw at me. If I had the time - I'd sure try it, but like most of us, time is hard to come by. Thanks for the suggestions. Bdog gave me the size dozer to look for - any ideas on where to look for a dozer/operator?

MadDog · Apr 27, 2005

Obviously, it is quicker and more efficient to use a large bulldozer and, unless you have one, that means hire one. I think that most folks who can afford to own a CUT, FEL and BH can probably afford to hire a bulldozer if they want to. However, if you're not that concerned with speed and efficiency and have the time to use the project to hone your skills with FEL and BH, it can certainly be done.

I have been doing exactly that with my B7800, FEL, toothbar and BH. I am almost finished excavating a landscaping pond that is about 80' long, has an average surface width of 15-18' and a max depth of about 7'. The width at max depth is about 6-7'. I worked on it for a few weekends (total of maybe 4-5 days in the aggregate) in the fall and then resumed after the ground thawed this spring and have put another 2-3 days in. I expect to be finished with the rough grades and drainfield and ready to drop a layer of sand prior to installing the liner in about another 2 days of work.

BTW, pretty much all of the excavation has been done w/FEL and toothbar --I have only used the BH for digging out around some humongous boulders that I encountered (see my post in Projects on moving large boulders /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif ).

Along the way, I have had a a lot of enjoyment and am a lot better using both the BH and the FEL than I was before this little project.

So I don't think it's impractical at all; just an individual call as to how you want to spend your time. On sunny Spring and Fall weekends, I'm pretty happy spending mine running the Megabeast. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Steve_Miller · Apr 27, 2005

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/download.php?Number=551381

I dug this one ten years ago with my B7200. It took me four weeks straight after work every day, about 3-4 hours per day. Its only three feet deep in the deepest part. It is all clay except for the top foot or so. It started out as just removing topsoil to make my lawn.

Steve

penokee · Apr 27, 2005

As mentioned by others, building a small dike at the end of a swale, etc, isn't too difficult and if your soil will hold water (clay, etc.) may be the way to go. Yours looks like 0.2 acres or so, will post a few pics of one I built a few years back this way, floods about 0.75 acres. PONDS ARE GREAT - TOO MANY WETLANDS DISAPEARING - CREATE MORE.
penokee /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

penokee · Apr 27, 2005

Put in a Cotrol Structure so I could draw it down (Haven't done it). Also may need an Emergency Spillway if you anticipate any seasonal increase in runoff.
penokee /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

penokee · Apr 27, 2005

My Lab Otto likes to watch the 2 ducks that decided to raise some little quackers here.
penokee /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif