Backhoe Digging A Ditch Without Backhoe

Harv · Sep 11, 2000

As I prepare my tractor path I'm getting closer and closer to having to add some culverts -- 3 in all. That's how many existing runoff channels there are, and I will need to cross them all with the tractor to get to where the chores are.

I didn't realize it 'til I started this project, but all of these channels are badly in need of repair. Portions of each one seem to have filled themselves in somehow, so the water, being persistent as it is, has simply climbed out and wandered around until it found the channel again further down. This city boy has a lot to learn about life in the foothills. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

For a number of reasons, I am not planning on owning a backhoe real soon, and the idea of renting one seems impractical due to the remote location of the property (about an hour or so from the nearest source). If I can't solve my problems any other way, I may have to reconsider one of these options.

So here's the question(s) -- I thought I saw somewhere about a 3-pt implement called a "scoop" or maybe a "shovel" which you drag behind like a plow. It makes more than a furrow -- more like a drainage or irrigation ditch. If this exists it would at least be a start... I think.

Also, an older guy at the gym told me about how his crew (underground construction) used to dig pretty good ditches using the loader bucket, especially if they just wanted to bury a culvert pipe. He said they would loosen the soil with box blade rippers and then come at it from the side with the loader. They would put the bucket on the ground, tilt it down as far as it would go, and then just slowly push forward. They couldn't go real deep, but usually enough to get the job done.

I'm assuming the equipment he was talking about was much heavier than the L-series I am hoping to get, but will this technique work for me? Has anyone out there actually done this? Also, would it be wise to try it without some kind of added bucket teeth, or maybe that nifty buck rake I'm planning on getting?

They say you learn by experience -- since I have none of my own, I will try to learn from yours. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Bird · Sep 11, 2000

Harv, I've done exactly what you describe to dig a ditch with the box blade and front end loader. It works and I did what I wanted to do, but it's pretty slow tedious work with light weight tractors like my B series Kubotas.

Bird

W5FL · Sep 11, 2000

Guess you need a ditch about 2 feet deep, 2 feet wide and 12 feet or so long. Use a pick and shovel for a reference. Takes about 3 days if you use the tractor to carry the Gatoraide.

If you use the rippers and blade to cut the ditch (4 or 5 feet boxblade) you wind up with a lot wider ditch than you need, but you can use the bucket to cover it back up. A rear scoop would be about like the pick and shovel unless you have sand for soil.

I have a rear 8 ft blade that can be angled and cuts a nice ditch quickly, if the tinhorn is not too large. Two or three passes will get you about 18 inches deep. Not too good in rock, but nothing else is either.

Harv · Sep 11, 2000

Uhhh... this tinhorn doesn't know what "tinhorn" means in this case, Wen. My dictionary says, " the horn-shaped metal can used by chuck-a-luck operators for shaking the dice". Somehow I don't think that's what you're talking about.

Bird · Sep 11, 2000

Hey Harv, welcome to the club. When I bought my place here in the country nearly 6 years ago was the first time I'd ever heard a "culvert" called a "horn" or "tinhorn". I still don't know where that term came from, but apparently is pretty common./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Bird

W5FL · Sep 11, 2000

In this area it is a tinhorn. In your area it is a sheet metal pipe 16 inches in diameter with 4 foot concret pipes (also 16 inches). If you look at one, they are a rolled metal pipe and look like a tin horn! Plastic horns will never fly.

MarkV · Sep 11, 2000

Harv,

How much rock do you have on your place? I have had some luck on tractor trails with what we would call a "swale". Being on very hilly land, as I develope a trail, I will always have places the water wants to take over. I look for the natural water flow, create a wide, shallow ditch (swale), line it with a few of the million rocks I have and let the water flow. Not what I would do on our main drive, but for tractor only areas, culverts (tinhorns) cost money and leaves are a problem here.

Harv · Sep 11, 2000

MarkV -

Thanks for using a word that is in my dictionary. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

One of the main roads that connects two of the little towns in this foothill area passes right through a swale (now that I know what it's called). Since this is an "official" county road, it was done with concrete. Besides the odd feeling of having water pouring over the road, I was somewhat take aback by the sign that said something to the effect, "If the flow looks excessive, do not attempt to cross". The downstream side of the road ends in a 6-foot drop. /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif

I do have a plentiful supply of rocks, but once the mountains fill up with snow, these waterways will run firm for many months with the runoff. Being inexperienced, I'm not sure how I feel about driving the tractor through even a small torrent on a regular basis.

The total price for all the steel culvert pipe I need (hopefully) comes to just about $400 delivered. I think I'll still give it a try. I suspect, like you, I will find "volunteer" streams popping up here and there, in which case I will very likely give the swale approach a try.

Thanks for the info.

MarkV · Sep 11, 2000

Harv,

Snow melt, now why didn't I think of that here in Georgia? That just is'nt one of my main thoughts as I put together a tractor trail. My swales do handle some hard thunder storms and run off from above. White water rafting has come to mind a few times. It is rare to see that for more than a day or two. If you get heavy run off or months, a culvert would be better. I do have an area that runs 2-4" of spring water over a rock lined swale (nothing fancy) about 8 months a year. That has held well and no problem for the tractor.

gordon · Sep 11, 2000

Harv as Bird, Wen, and MarkV have already posted a ditch can be dug many different ways with the same end effect a long skinny depression in the soil./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

The bottom line on how you get the job done is the tools at hand. If you have a boxblade run it at a heavy angle to start a depression on one side of the tractor then turn around and repeat the same. What you end up with is a V cut in the dirt. Depending on how hard the soil is will determine how long it will take. Then you can backfill with the loader. I let my boxblade take the major abuse because thats what it's intended to do.

If you have a blade that you can angle it would make the job much quicker and also have to move much less dirt to get to the same depth. A blade that rotates and offsets doesn't come cheap but it's a very good investment.

A scoop is a poormans front end loader you will be much more productive with the boxblade than a scoop.

Any L-series will do the trench job but the more horsepower you have along with the proper ballast will also determine how quick you get the job done.

Just remember once you get your tractor to run the heck out of her and she will love you forever./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

By the way Harv your a hot-cat on a computer with all those fancy picture posts and what not. I've just figured out how to turn mine on, but I'm learning!

Gordon

Bird · Sep 11, 2000

Driving through moving water is a no-no, unless you're absolutely sure of the depth, texture of bottom, strength of the flow, etc. And I'm very cautious about even still water, and don't forget that if it gets deep enough most vehicles have vented drive axles, including the front axle on my tractor. It's bad news to get water in there./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Bird

Harv · Sep 11, 2000

Gordon -

Sounds like you've been there, done that. Thanks!

I didn't know box blades came in rotating / offsetting models. I hate to ask, since I'm already looking at $750 for a good 5-foot brush hog and $600 for the bucket rake, but just what ballpark are we in here? Be gentle ...

gordon · Sep 11, 2000

The rearblade I have rotates and offsets I bought it used, its a Landpride series 35 rearblade. Price of used blade http://www.landpride.com/lp/products/rb35_specs.html$325.00---new is about $900 going price unsure of list. There is a story in itself about the blade but I got a killer deal on that one!!!/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

My box blade is a Woods HB-72 http://www.woodsonline.com/nothing fancy about it. It doesn't rotate or offset. What I ment about cutting a v with the box was using the side link on the tractor to put the box at a heavy angle where one end of the box is cutting and the other is in the air on the first couple of bites. Cost of boxblade was in the $600. range unsure of list price

Gordon

jyoutz · Sep 12, 2000

We use the "rocked crossing" or swale approach fairly often on our forestry roads, due to cost and dependable performance. One thing to remember about culverts is that if they are improperly sized or installed, they will blow out during heavy runoff and will create lots of erosion and future problems. If you get any kind of heavy flow at all, then it's best to either engineer the install and design or not do it at all. You're always safe to use the rock crossing method and you don't have to be an engineer or hydrologist.

roysallis · Sep 12, 2000

Harav,
If you install the culverts it is a good idea to pour cement around the sides and underneath the end that the water flows into to prevent erosion around the pipe. Or you can use rocks or anything else that will deter erosion.

Harv · Sep 12, 2000

Roy -

You're right about the inflow end of the culvert. I've had a variety of suggestions on how to do that. An underground construction guy told me to use either sandbags or those sandbag-like sacks of concrete mix which harden in place when the first moisture sets in.

I'm opting for the natural look since rocks are plentiful and tractors make such good wheelbarrows. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

gerard · Sep 12, 2000

I've dug some shallow trneches with my loader without a problem as long as the rocks aren't too bad. If doing a lenthgy trench I'd try an borrow a one bottom plow and just drive the trench. That would loosen things up a lot and make for easy digging with the loader. Just remember about the sizing as mentioned in an earlier post. Also a swale will take much more flow than a culvert depending on the size of each. just picture taking a cross section of the culvert pipe (ie looking down the end of it) A 12 in pipe has 113 sq inches of area for water to pass through. [ 3.14(6x6)]. A swale just 12 inches high by 12 inches wide has 144 sq inches. When you consider swales are usually much larger than that there's no comparison. The only issue is being able to drive over it.