Difference between these valves?

[canoetrpr]

I am reasearching adding a three spool remote valve to my Kubota L3400 rated at ~7GPM Plan to use two spools for TnT and one for who knows what.

I know that I need an open centered valve with power beyond which is designed to control dual acting cylinders.

Figured I am better off with a monoblock configuration so that I don't have to muck with putting the valve together.

I can't figure out why the price difference between these two and thought that those more hydraulically knowledgable than me might be able to shed some light and/or suggest a better / less expensive alternative.

1. 3 SPOOL 20 GPM GRESEN
2. 3 SPOOL 25 GPM PRINCE with the optional PB sleeve

Confused because the Prince seems to outspec the Gresen (not that I need either 20 or 25 GPM!) and is slightly smaller (which is a slight advantage).

Any others that I should consider that might work just as well and be more economical?

Thought about saving a bit and going to a 2 spool valve but figure I better go with 3 while I am at it

 

[kennyd]

Any others that I should consider that might work just as well and be more economical?

While either one of those valve will work, the ones you linked are HUGE and EXPENSIVE!

You should really consider the Prince SV series valves. Since there stackable, you can just do the two for your TnT now, it's easy later to add a spool if you need it. These valve also have a smaller footprint so they are much easier to mount then the ones you linked.

 

[herringchoker]

You won't regret going to 3 spools, or at least allowing for it as kennyd suggests. I used the BM40 series valve from Princess Auto when I installed remotes on my B7800. They're rated at 9 gpm continuous, 12 gpm peak. I added 2 remotes, now I'm seeing where a third would be handy.

 

[canoetrpr]

herringchoker:

Good to hear from a local Canuck on this. I was eyeing both the BM40 vavles at Princess Auto and they have the Prince 5000 series as well. The latter is quite a bit more than can be sourced at at surplus center and I didn't think that the BM40 had a power beyond sleeve? I imagine it must if you've got it going on your B7800. I'll check the catalogue closer.

kennyd:

I'm really a newb at all things mechanical. Figured I shouldn't go for a stackable set of valves cause them might be more complex for me to get set up. How much effort / complexity is involved in the Prince SV series? I imagine I get all the pieces separately and I have to hook them up. I know I'm being a tad paranoid here.

 

[kennyd]

kennyd:

I'm really a newb at all things mechanical. Figured I shouldn't go for a stackable set of valves cause them might be more complex for me to get set up. How much effort / complexity is involved in the Prince SV series? I imagine I get all the pieces separately and I have to hook them up. I know I'm being a tad paranoid here.

The valve goes together like a sandwich. The INLET and OUTLET sections are the "bread", and the spool sections are the "meat" all held together with 3 threaded rods, "toothpicks" if you will...and there is O-rings between each section(mayo).

Cleanliness is very important when assembling, but thats the case for your whole hydraulic system, not just the valve body.

Take a look HERE and scroll down to the SV series for the assembly insructions.

 

[canoetrpr]

kennyd:

You sure made that sound simple

I looked up a 3 spool Prince SV with power beyond and it comes to $237 at Surplus Center - within $15 of the monoblock 3 spool Prince 5000 series valve.

I do see the value of being able to add a spool but if I go with 3 remotes upfront I'm guessing I won't need any more.

A lower footprint sounds good but I can't find any dimensions on the SV valve to compare. Will keep looking.

Thanks!

 

[Willl]

(Canoetrpr, hope you don't mind if I borrow your thread a bit.)

I too want to add some extra spools, but in my case I'm planning to tie into the PB line my tractor uses for the backhoe.

Using a picture I stole from the site Kenny posted, can anybody tell me if my plumming plan is correct.

Using a valve like the lower valve #1, the plan is lines A and B would tie into my existing PB lines on the tractor.

Then I would also need a third line (C) tied into some yet unknown return port on the tractor.

Sound good so far ?. The cylinder lines are pretty easy to figure out.

 

[MJPetersen]

I too want to add some extra spools, but in my case I'm planning to tie into the PB line my tractor uses for the backhoe.

Using a valve like the lower valve #1, the plan is lines A and B would tie into my existing PB lines on the tractor.

Then I would also need a third line (C) tied into some yet unknown return port on the tractor.

in a large part it depends on how your tractor is plumbed at this point. Is the PB connection from your tractor the last link in the chain or does it continue to the 3 pt (for example)? Also what kind of hyd system do you have already? Do you need to have the pb connected when the back hoe is not installed?

If your new valve is not the last valve in the the chain and if you have an open center system, then your plumbing plan appears to be correct.

Mike

 

[MJPetersen]

While either one of those valve will work, the ones you linked are HUGE and EXPENSIVE!

You should really consider the Prince SV series valves. Since there stackable, you can just do the two for your TnT now, it's easy later to add a spool if you need it. These valve also have a smaller footprint so they are much easier to mount then the ones you linked.

Canoetrpr, This is EXACTLY what I had in mind to say, but when I first saw the post I did not have the time to write it. I think that what Kenny suggested is exactly what would fit the needs you described. They really are not hard to assemble. A valve that is closer to your flow requirements will be less expensive, smaller, and smoother than one that is much larger than your needs.

Mike

 

[kennyd]

kennyd:

You sure made that sound simple

I looked up a 3 spool Prince SV with power beyond and it comes to $237 at Surplus Center - within $15 of the monoblock 3 spool Prince 5000 series valve.

I do see the value of being able to add a spool but if I go with 3 remotes upfront I'm guessing I won't need any more.

A lower footprint sounds good but I can't find any dimensions on the SV valve to compare. Will keep looking.

Thanks!

It sounds simple because it is simple

According the the latest Surplus Center catalog I have, a 3 spool Prince Sv valve has these dimensions:
8 5/8" x 5 7/8" x 3 1/4" Shipping weight of 29 lbs.

Glad to help

 

[kennyd]

(Canoetrpr, hope you don't mind if I borrow your thread a bit.)

I too want to add some extra spools, but in my case I'm planning to tie into the PB line my tractor uses for the backhoe.

Using a picture I stole from the site Kenny posted, can anybody tell me if my plumming plan is correct.

Using a valve like the lower valve #1, the plan is lines A and B would tie into my existing PB lines on the tractor.

Then I would also need a third line (C) tied into some yet unknown return port on the tractor.

Sound good so far ?. The cylinder lines are pretty easy to figure out.

Will, you really should start your own thread

 

[herringchoker]

Canoetrpr - Princess Auto has a PB adaptor for the BM40 series valves. It lists at $21.99 in the current catalogue. The 3 spool valve lists at $349.99. When I did mine 3 years ago, I gathered parts ahead so I could get the valve on sale (if memory serves I paid $169 for the 2 spooler, which lists now for $249). I've never seen valve accessories such as the PB adaptor on sale. (Yes, mine has PB.)
I like the idea of the Prince SV valves, and if I were doing it again, I would take a hard look at them.

 

[canoetrpr]

herringchoker:

Did you get your hoses, fittings from Princess Auto?

The SV valves do look good. From reading some stuff on the Prince site, I ought to get a torque wrench to put it together. Kinda odd that they don't sell smaller monoblock valves rated for a lower GPM.

 

[herringchoker]

Yes, I did get the hoses and fittings from Princess Auto. I'm only about 4 miles from their local store and they're open longer hours than the local hydraulic shops, so I find them very convenient.
What I like about the BM40 valve is the compact size (besides the sale price ). I was installing the remotes as part of a cab building project and space was at a premium.

 

[hill]

Yes, I did get the hoses and fittings from Princess Auto. I'm only about 4 miles from their local store and they're open longer hours than the local hydraulic shops, so I find them very convenient.
What I like about the BM40 valve is the compact size (besides the sale price ). I was installing the remotes as part of a cab building project and space was at a premium.

It sure would be a convenient circumstance to have any hydraulic line shop close by = I'll be having to make 25 mile trips to and fro in order to adjust my miscalculations when I get started with this hydraulic bugaboo.

My tractor is also a B7800 with Kubota's backhoe so I imagine that the two QD lines that operate it are much the same as you have. I intend to use those lines to power T&T when the hoe is not installed, and want to add a thumb for the hoe using a single new valve plumbed in front of the existing hoe valve to operate that. I'd been hoping to find a valve small enough to fit into the BH control tower with it's operating handle extended through the existing top cover of that control tower but find it is difficult fit. Prince valves are the smallest available that could be used?

Can you verify for me that the only available source on these machines is the PB circuit from the loader valve which supplies the backhoe by fairly long hoses? I haven't come to the point of pulling panels from the tractor to see if there's another way to access hydraulic flow hidden somewhere in the depths of the machine.

 

[herringchoker]

hill - Yes, I'm fortunate in having Princess Auto 4 miles away and a professional hydraulics service shop only 2 miles away.

I'm not familiar with the Prince valves, but the BM40 valves sold by Princess Auto were the smallest I could find in this GPM range at that time. Sorry, I can't help much on that one.

According to my operator's manual (which covers the B2710/B2910/B7800), the loader outlet (they call it the Mid outlet) is the only auxiliary hydraulic block on the B7800. (The manual says the B2710 and B2910 have an additional rear hydraulic block, but that's no help to us. ) As you say, you would have to power your additional hydraulics from that tap, i.e. power beyond from the loader valve.

 

[canoetrpr]

hill - I figured that most backhoes would have their own hydraulic pump driven by the PTO. Is this not the case on your B7800?

 

[MJPetersen]

Actually, small hoes, even commercially produced ones like the new Woods BH70x, have fairly modest flow requirements of 4-6 gpm (the BH80x is 5-7gpm). This can usually most economically be handled by the hydraulics on the tractor rather than adding the complexity of a tank, pump, filters and hoses. On open center systems this involves using a pb port and when the hoe is not connected the QD's need to be connected with a hose to allow through flow.

Mike

 

[canoetrpr]

MJPeterson:

Very interesting.

If I want to go down the path of adding a 3 spool remove valve on my L3400 Kubota, using the PB port on the loader, what should I be keeping in mind to allow my hydraulic system to be compatible with a Woods BH-80X for example?

Not that I can really justify a hoe given about 50 hrs of use per year but I have though about it instead of an upgrade to a Grand L - neither of which I "need" BTW.... but both of which would be fun and would cost about the same ;-)

I imagine that if I did ever get a hoe, the Woods BH-80X would be on TOP of my list. I'm incredibly impressed with their rotary cutter I have now and even more impressed with their customer service.

 

[MJPetersen]

If I want to go down the path of adding a 3 spool remove valve on my L3400 Kubota, using the PB port on the loader, what should I be keeping in mind to allow my hydraulic system to be compatible with a Woods BH-80X for example?

The only thing that is important is that you will not power your bh with the valves that control your remotes. You will have to add an additional pb remote, tying into the circuit either before your new valves or after through the pb of the new valves. This pb remote must be connected together if the bh is not installed to allow the oil to flow in its cycle.

I confess I really like the looks of the 70X and 80X series hoes. They just look really sweet.

Mike