Diesel Timing

   / Diesel Timing #1  

Mark Page

Platinum Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
552
Location
Maryland
Tractor
Massey Ferguson 2615 48hp, 4wd, loader
With both valves closed the piston comes up on the compression stroke super heating the air 18x ambient pressure. The injectors then spray atomized fuel into the combustion chamber where it's ignited by the super heated air.
With all that said, and correct me if I'm wrong, what provides the timing of the injectors? Is it at TDC or before, like a gas engine? Is the camshaft involved in deciding when to actuate the injectors?
What is the flash point of diesel fuel? How hot does the compressed air get?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Mark
 
   / Diesel Timing #2  
Mark,
I can answer some of your questions.

The injectors themselves aren't timed. The timing of the injection of fuel into the cylinders is in the injection pump. Most diesels have the fuel injected just a few degrees BTC. Injection pumps are gear driven (at least I've never seen one that wasn't) Pumps that have the injector lines all in a row at the top have a camshaft inside, just like the engine does. This cam pushes a plunger at the right time for each cylinder to recieve the fuel. The pumps that have the lines mounted all the way around the back end of the pump are distributor pumps. They work basically the same as the in-line pumps with a plunger pushing the fuel, but the fuel is "distributed" through the rotating manifold to the injector lines.

This doesn't apply to the Detroit Diesel 2 stroke engines. Whole other kettle of fish those things are.!
 
   / Diesel Timing #3  
My old 6.2 chevy ran a whole lot better when the timing was advanced on the mark, by the width of a dime?? Something to do with the old pollution controls.Some of our big cummins engines 1100 hp.. have their own camshaft to pump the injectors{mechanical} about 20 years old but still in use here?
 
   / Diesel Timing
  • Thread Starter
#4  
Dosen't the fuel pressure at the injectors have to be greater than the pressure in the combustion chamber?
 
   / Diesel Timing #5  
The fuel is injected into the cylinder a little BTDC, there is actually a delay while the fuel heats up and vaporises, that is the start of injection then there is the fuel continuing to be injected and also burning the fuel that was injected that is uncontrolled injection period, then the injector puts in the fuel and it burns that is controlled injection, and what gives a diesel engine the torque.
The injection timing is controlled by an advance mechanism, the cut of the injection plunger, and or a combination of both.
I do not remember the flash point of diesel fuel, around 450 degrees I would think.
 
   / Diesel Timing #6  
The flash point of diesel was actually the wrong term, that is the temperature diesel will burn with an ignition sources, that is 144F
The proper term for diesel fuel in an engine is automatic ignition that temperature is 410F
 
   / Diesel Timing #7  
Dosen't the fuel pressure at the injectors have to be greater than the pressure in the combustion chamber?

Yes,

The opening pressure of an injector in my JD 3520 is 2843 PSI as per the service manual. The compression test states 426 PSI, with 355 PSI as the minimum. So the injectors are spraying WELL above cylinder pressure. :thumbsup:
 
   / Diesel Timing #8  
With both valves closed the piston comes up on the compression stroke super heating the air 18x ambient pressure. The injectors then spray atomized fuel into the combustion chamber where it's ignited by the super heated air.
With all that said, and correct me if I'm wrong, what provides the timing of the injectors? Is it at TDC or before, like a gas engine? Is the camshaft involved in deciding when to actuate the injectors?
What is the flash point of diesel fuel? How hot does the compressed air get?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Mark

Let's get the cycle correct first. The compression ratio may be 18 but that's a volume ratio and not a pressure ratio.The pressure ratio is more like C x 18^1.4 where C is a contant that allows for the fact that the valves aren't completely closed throught the compression stroke and it's value is around 0.65. (It varies with the valve timing so it's different for each engine.) That gives a pressure ratio of 37.2 , not 18. ( If the ambient pressure is 14.7 psia, then the compression pressure is ~ 514 psia.)The temperature ratio is ~2.8 for this situation and that gives you an air temperature of ~996°F (( 2.8 x 520°R)-460°R)on a 60°F day.

The fuel autoignition temperature is ~425°F

In order to inject the fuel and break it up into a mist, the injector pressure must be well above the compression pressures through out the injection process.

Because the combustion reaction takes some time to start (ignition delay) and the fuel injection is not instantaneous, the introduction of fuel must take place in advance of the piston reaching TDC. The advance is taken care of by the fuel injection system. Most diesels are timed around 19-23° BTDC, as I recall. My NH has a ****** device that senses coolant temperature and retards the timing if the coolant is less than 120°F to reduce some emmission component.

There are several ways to control the injection process;mechanically or electroncally. The mechanical methods use the pump it self or a rack system where the thottle rotates the injectors to set the fuel charge and a pushod mechanically causes the injection. ( IIRC, some inline injection pumps use racks.)

Most of the modern tractors use a metering sytem in injection pump to pressurze and meter the fuel delivery and the pump timing gears are driven by the crankshaft as is the cam for the valves. Everything is a hard mechanical connection.

In the electronic systems, the timing is sensed from the crankshaft, the load is sensed by a PCM (power control module), the timing and the quantity of fuel injected are controlled by an electrically controlled fuel injector driven by the PCM and the muscle for the injection comes from engine lube oil via a high pressure pump (Ford Powerstroke System)

I hope you find this helpful.
 
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