Diesel Cars

[MontereyDave]

To me you are asking for lots of troubles. The forces on a travel trailer are totally different from any other and they are the quickest way to kill a tranny.

There is a reason the hitch limits for your vehicles are so low. Get a small SUV to do your pulling duty's.

Chris

Hi Chris, I'd really like to know if that is true or not. My doubt stems from the fact that 99% of the small SUVs are built on car platforms i.e. VW Tiguan is a lifted VW Golf, Honda Pilot is a Honda Accord underneath the SUV shaped skin, Toyota Highlander is a Camry incognito, etc. So, don't they all share the same transmissions? I don't understand why a Class III hitch for a Golf-based Tiguan is $87 but a 500 lb larger Passat with twice as much hp and torque can only get a Class I hitch in the US. Another doubt stems from how cars of all shapes and sizes routinely pull campers (caravans), racecars, etc in Europe with the same tow vehicles only afforded Class I hitches in the US. I wonder if the real reason might have more to do with our over-regulated auto industry and our pretty painted rubber covered 5-mph bumpers. Afterall, back in the 70s and 80s 4,000 lb cars with less hp and torque than my Passat routinely pulled all kinds of campers and boats, etc in the US. In the 70s Cadillacs, Lincolns, and full size station wagons pulled 30ft Airstreams. All I'm trying to pull is a measly 14-ft camper.

According to this article the Euro Passat and Golf won their respective categories; Quote: Steve Fowler, Group Editor, commented: "After five days of intense testing, the Volkswagen Passat Estate emerged as a clear winner."
So, shouldn't a Passat be capable of towing greater than 2,000 pounds in the US?

Passat: 1,575 kg-1,724 kg class
Golf: sub 1,425 kg class

Read more: Volkswagen Passat Estate Wins 2007 Towcar Awards | Towing And Hauling Blog & Discussions at Truck Trend Magazine

 

[newbury]

:thumbsup:
What he said
My Jetta TDI SW is rated to pull like 2,000 lbs in Europe, but over here only 1,000 lbs. Is gravity stronger here?

 

[rsewill]

I really appreciate the expertise of those of you who've already solved trailer hitch problems as you obviously have with your Passat wagon.

I did NOT solve the trailer hitch problem! And I cannot answer any of your specific questions.

My wife has the car at work. And the receipt for the hitch is in the glove box. I'll check it out when she returns.

But I know it is a Class One hitch so what I did is definitely of no help to you. The only place in my metro area of 100k population that had a hitch that would fit was my VW dealer. I let them install it because it was a rush job (I got a good buy on the Deere 4100 via Craigslist but it was first come, first served and I didn't have a hitch on any other vehicle) and I didn't know how much trouble I would have accessing the wiring.

Check out tdiclub.com where some have gotten European hitches. There is a thread on the topic including pics of what people have towed.

Obviously I was way, way overweight. I balanced that load on the trailer which had a 5000 lb axle and brought two bathroom scales to check the tongue weight which was about 300 pounds. My only concern was controlling the vehicle so I just drove slowly (as in five mph over the minimum) on mostly rural interstate. The Diesel pulled it effortlessly up some pretty steep hills. I drove by two open weigh stations and a few highway patrol but the load looks like your typical green garden tractor unless you pay it some attention. The trip was uneventful but I wouldn't do it again.

 

[MontereyDave]

Thanks guys. I'll check tdiclub.com and keep checking elsewhere. I hope I don't have to settle for a Class I hitch but the more searching I do the more likely it seems.

 

[R_Walter]

Better late than never to this thread.

I love my '04 Passat wagon ($14,995 used w/37k miles via eBay in August 2010) and '03 Jetta ($19,100 new via eBay) Diesels, both automatics. I'm 61 and these will probably be the last cars I ever buy. I drove the Jetta 110 miles round trip to work. Filled it up once a week. We are an all Diesel family except for our zero turn mower (Z425) and a Toro walk behind.

Here is a pic of my Passat pulling a trailer with my Deere 4100 CUT. Just a bit over what the Passat is rated to haul but I very, very carefully pulled it some 400 miles from where I bought the Deere. I scaled it just to see what it all weighed (in pounds):

Steer 2160
Drive 2160
Trailer 3360
Gross 7680

The Passat curb weight is about 3500 pounds.

I got about 16 mpg pulling just the trailer into a 25 mph wind on the way out and 20 mpg pulling the loaded trailer back with the same wind - both ways in fourth gear (out of five.) And I bungied up the safety chains at this stop. The tractor was well chained to the trailer.

The Passat gets around 35 mpg mixed and the Jetta 44 mpg mixed.

Does the trailer have brakes?

 

[R_Walter]

Thanks guys. I'll check tdiclub.com and keep checking elsewhere. I hope I don't have to settle for a Class I hitch but the more searching I do the more likely it seems.

I remember being in Germany during the summer months and bunches of the local Deutsche were all out running down the autobahns pulling their travel trailers with their Benz's and BMWs.

 

[jonyyuma]

My 2006 Highlander was supposed to be a Camry underneith, but it definitely is not. It does not have the same gear ratios in the Trans-axle either. Therefore it doesn't get the same mileage on the road, part of that due to a higher profile? But it does have a trailer pulling rating?

 

[Diamondpilot]

There are many differences like springs, brakes, tires, ect on SUV's versus your little wagon. Also, here versus Europe, we have stricter tow rating regulations like stopping distances, start stop on a grade, acceleration time, ect.

Just because its done does not make it right.

Any idea on mpg pulling a load like that? Say its 24 mpg and a good SUV could do 12 mpg for argument sake. Lets say its a 3000 mile round trip your savings would be $500 based on $4 per gallon fuel. Not enough to warrant the extra ware on a vehicle not up to the task.

Chris

 

[ultrarunner]

Many US imports of Euro models don't allow hitches in the States...

The BMW 3 Wagons just about all have hitches in Germany... BMW won't let the Dealers have them in the States.

A friend bought one in Germany and the factory hitch... had to take it off and re-install after Euro-Delivery...

The official line is the German Hitch components are not US certified so their is liability involved.

 

[MontereyDave]

Many US imports of Euro models don't allow hitches in the States...

The BMW 3 Wagons just about all have hitches in Germany... BMW won't let the Dealers have them in the States.

A friend bought one in Germany and the factory hitch... had to take it off and re-install after Euro-Delivery...

The official line is the German Hitch components are not US certified so their is liability involved.

...and the Europeans wonder why Americans drive so many gas guzzling SUVs and pickup trucks. We might buy fewer SUVs if we could install European hitches. Oh well, with our gas prices reaching levels that used to be typical of Europe maybe our politicians will relax some of the choking regulations in the auto industry.

 

[MontereyDave]

There are many differences like springs, brakes, tires, ect on SUV's versus your little wagon. Also, here versus Europe, we have stricter tow rating regulations like stopping distances, start stop on a grade, acceleration time, ect.

Just because its done does not make it right.

Any idea on mpg pulling a load like that? Say its 24 mpg and a good SUV could do 12 mpg for argument sake. Lets say its a 3000 mile round trip your savings would be $500 based on $4 per gallon fuel. Not enough to warrant the extra ware on a vehicle not up to the task.

Chris

I understand what you're saying and it seems rational on the surface. Truck based SUVs are definitely leaps and bounds more capable than 8-cyl 4,000 lb sedans (like my Passat). Most SUVs used to be built on truck chassis regardless of their size i.e. a 1990s Kia Sportage was small by US standards and even though it had a 4-cylinder it was darn near as capable as a Jeep CJ-7 because it was built on a truck chassis. But then all automakers finally starting building SUVs on car chassis because most buyers use them like yesteryear's stationwagons and rarely take them off road or pull a load with them. It was evident as night and day 10-years ago when I bought a Mercedes ML430 - everything about it felt heavy duty sitting still or while in motion in stark contrast to its rival from Lexus, the RX300/RX330 which was built on a Camry chassis. It felt smooth, quiet, light, and nimble just like a Japanese sedan and it got better fuel economy than the ML as a result all of which please most luxury SUV buyers so ultimately Mercedes made the change too and starting in 2006 the ML is built on the E-Class chassis.

Insofar as the affect on MPG efficiency you mention while pulling a load - my goal is to pull a 2000~2500 lb entry level lightweight camping trailer just barely beyond the maximum allowed with a Class I. With 275 HP and 370 lb ft torque coupled with AWD in my 4,000 lb sedan with a 6-speed MT I can't see my car straining any worse than car-based SUVs (most of which weight about the same, have 3.0L V6 with AT and possibly AWD). Afterall that European magazine article stated Passat and Golf are class-leading excellent tow vehicles with trailer up to 1,724 KG (3,800 pounds).

Volkswagen Passat Estate Wins 2007 Towcar Awards | Towing And Hauling Blog & Discussions at Truck Trend Magazine

 

[rsewill]

Does the trailer have brakes?

No. And it was a rental.

Like I said. I was way overweight for the car but the trailer itself had the capacity And I drove slower than everyone else on the road so stopping wasn't of great concern. As a truck driver I am used to needing greater distances to stop and drive my car the same way.

 

[tcartwri]

In New Zealand the farmers were pulling two horse trailers with sedans and wagons the size and weight of a jetta. Only in NA do we need 1 ton diesel pickups to pull the same load....

 

[ultrarunner]

In New Zealand the farmers were pulling two horse trailers with sedans and wagons the size and weight of a jetta. Only in NA do we need 1 ton diesel pickups to pull the same load....

There is some truth to this...

Even back in the 60's you would see passenger cars pulling airstream trailers and horse trailers...

I used my Plymouth Valiant to pull one yard cement buggies to do many a job... we made do with what we had.

Just talked to a friend that paid the US equivalent of $8.40 a gallon to fill up in Europe...

More than 50% of the BMW production is Diesel in Europe.

I have to say I really enjoy the small diesels... great pulling power through the mountains and starting out in first gear seldom requires any revving of the engine...

Lots of Golfs pulling camping trailers down the autobahn to Italy and Croatia...