Did I break my little XJ?

[jdom84]

We got 16" of snow on top of existing 12" and the temperature has been around -10°f to 3°f for the last 3 days. I was out pushing some snow, making a path to my skids of firewood which I store all the way on the other side of the property because of rodent issues. well... about halfway, the snow got deeper and the tractor was having a hard time pushing it. With the diff lock in, 4 wheel assist engaged and going in reverse, both front wheels stopped spinning completely. Normally the HST will go into relief at this point but the back tires where still spinning. The entire tractor started bucking but the front wheels were still stopped. There was no grinding, popping or cracking sounds, just the shaking of the tractor.

I stopped trying to push so much snow and started to taking layers off. The tractor worked fine, the front diff would allow one or both front wheels to spin in both forward and reverse and both never stopped. There were times when the tractor would stop completely but the wheels didnt. I finished up my path got some firewood and headed back to the garage. After dumping off the wood, I backed up to a snow pile and dropped the blade, continued to reverse until the front wheels stopped and the tractor started shaking. Its really hard to get it to stop spinning just the front wheels, usually it goes into relief or the tractor just spins out on the snow.

What could this be?

 

[3Lfarms]

I am not sure why it would shake.
Did it make a loud clicking or popping noise when the front wheels stopped turning?

 

[jdom84]

I am not sure why it would shake.
Did it make a loud clicking or popping noise when the front wheels stopped turning?

nope, the thought of it being a gear shredding teeth was my first reaction but no weird noises. just the shaking. Im getting my garage cleaned up so I can pull it in and take a look and drain some fluid.

 

[tomplum]

Fingers crossed for you Mr Rig! If you need a pic from the service manual, let me know and I will try and hunt it up. You have a dealer semi near you?

 

[Avenger]

Can you post a quick video of it so we can see what is going on?

 

[jdom84]

Fingers crossed for you Mr Rig! If you need a pic from the service manual, let me know and I will try and hunt it up. You have a dealer semi near you?

I need to quit being a cheap *** as buy the manual! dealer is 1.5 hours away, he just orders what I need and I put it on, which reminds me he has some parts I need to pick.

Can you post a quick video of it so we can see what is going on?

Its to bad I wasnt recording video... because I would have really liked to see it also. It wasnt very easy to get it to happen either.



So I think I figured it out.... Im not even sure if this is possible but it appears the rim has spun in the tire. with it being -10 this morning, I woke up to my neighbor digging out his high centered truck after pulling out of his garage. I fired up the tractor and moved a bunch of snow for him and then went and parked the tractor. Few hours later I plowed my path to the wood and when returning to my driveway I noticed a blue "windshield washer fluid" spot in the snow... figured I punctured a tire. Just a bit ago, I pulled the tractor into the garage and noticed blue fluid in the snow of the other tire. got to looking at the tire closer and noticed there is bits of shredded rubber along the rim of both front tires.

I have not put a PSI gauge on them but Im guessing the subzero cold has dropped the pressure to almost nothing, allowing the rims to spin in the tire. Had no idea that could even happen... if thats what happened

 

[s219]

Yeah, that is fairly common thing to read about on the forums here. Sounds like the right explanation given all the evidence.

 

[ruffdog]

I cant believe it would be worth the trouble putting ballast in tires that small. If the tires are damaged and they wont hold air, pull the tires and get them dry, put a light coat of 100% silicone caulk between the wheel and tire, and inflate before it dries.

 

[jdom84]

I cant believe it would be worth the trouble putting ballast in tires that small. If the tires are damaged and they wont hold air, pull the tires and get them dry, put a light coat of 100% silicone caulk between the wheel and tire, and inflate before it dries.

yeah, not much extra weight in the 12 gallons but every bit adds up... eventually. Wasnt about to return the extra from filling the rears so I just filled the fronts. They seem to be holding air for now... but they are forecasting more snow and more sub zero temps... -19f

Thanks for the silicone trick, Ill keep it in mind.

 

[Doofy]

yeah, not much extra weight in the 12 gallons but every bit adds up... eventually. Wasnt about to return the extra from filling the rears so I just filled the fronts. They seem to be holding air for now... but they are forecasting more snow and more sub zero temps... -19f

Thanks for the silicone trick, Ill keep it in mind.

Good Lord man, move to Alaska! We are not that cold and there is no snow in our forecasts.

 

[Diggin It]

So I think I figured it out.... Im not even sure if this is possible but it appears the rim has spun in the tire.

I have not put a PSI gauge on them but Im guessing the subzero cold has dropped the pressure to almost nothing, allowing the rims to spin in the tire. Had no idea that could even happen... if thats what happened

It's entirely possible (punny?).

Ask me about my trip downhill, backwards, no control when mine did that. No shuddering or shredding though. The Rimguard acted as a lubricant between the tire and wheel.

Once the dealer figured out what happened and that it wasn't a failed transmission as first suspected, they demounted both rear tires and used a bead sealant before remounting and refilling.


And yes, my 'little' front tires are filled too.

 

[tomplum]

That's good news. When I read it the first time, I took it as the front wheels would still turn when there was no power applied to them. WTH?!? Best brush up on my comprehension skills....

 

[Avenger]

Yeah, thats scary stuff! Good thing you are on mostly flat ground. Like Diggin It said, that stuff will act like a lubricant and your tires will spin on the rim. No matter how hard you brake, you are going for a ride.

I have rim guard in my rear tires, live on a steep hill side. So far, no problems spinning. Growing up on the farm, we always had ballast, usually in the form of Calcium chloride, that would leak some around the bead and rust the metal something horrible, but never slipped. Washer fluid, being mostly water, but contains anti-freeze or ethylene glycol (among other things) will be extremely slick. Rub some washer fluid between your fingers, you will feel some lubricity. Not saying that rim guard or calcium chloride is any better, but if that is what happened, you probably need to reseal the bead.

Calking the bead with silicone will most likely work. However, putting it on the outside will likely not work. You may need to drain/deflate the tires, break the bead, seal the bead from the INSIDE and reseat the bead. This might be better done by someone at a tire shop like Les Schwab (as much as I dont like them, they are the only ones who do tractor tires in my area).

Least give them a call and explain to them what is going on. See if the tire experts offer any advice. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Username Taken]

They don't do this for decoration --

 

[Username Taken]

I don't know if something like this would work or not. But I would think there's similar items available for your application--

Weld On Beadlocks

 

[ruffdog]

They don't do this for decoration --

Most of the time they do that for high torque and LOW AIR PRESSURE application like drag racing or rock crawling. With R4 tires, you don't notice low pressure like you would with Ag or turf tires, especially in the winter. CHECK YOUR TIRE PRESSURE!!!

 

[Username Taken]

Most of the time they do that for high torque and LOW AIR PRESSURE application like drag racing or rock crawling. With R4 tires, you don't notice low pressure like you would with Ag or turf tires, especially in the winter. CHECK YOUR TIRE PRESSURE!!!

Agree :drink:

 

[jdom84]

This might be better done by someone at a tire shop like Les Schwab (as much as I dont like them, they are the only ones who do tractor tires in my area).

Least give them a call and explain to them what is going on. See if the tire experts offer any advice. Good luck and keep us posted.

Les Schwab is it for us as well... and the one here only uses calcium chloride.

I dont think ill have the issue in Oregon when we move. where there is only a 60 degree temperature swing from summer to winter... not this 130+ degree swing we have here!

 

[jdom84]

That's good news. When I read it the first time, I took it as the front wheels would still turn when there was no power applied to them. WTH?!? Best brush up on my comprehension skills....

could be my fault on the splaining lol. I was really working the tractor quite hard!

 

[3Lfarms]

I found I had to inflate my tires to the maximum listed on the sidewall to keep the WW fluid from allowing the tire to slip on the rim. Found out the hard way that brand new tires on brand new rims will pop themselves off the bead at pressures under 6 PSI. After a couple weeks, I dropped the pressure in the rears to make it ride better.