did I break anything?

[rsallen]

Have you determined just what the oil in the exhaust is yet?

This is a wet sleeve engine?!!!!
With a dry sleeved engine and a misaligned headgasket you should find oil also in the cyl/s the oil gallery is closest to.

Do you have any glow plugs. If so you can do compression tests there.

 

[Rich Waugh]

It sure sounds to me as though you have an incorrect head gasket that is blocking the oil gallery and/or allowing coolant into the cylinders somewhere. As noted previously, there are a bunchof different but similar gaskets for these engines and a number of people have had issues with the wrong gasket causing problems.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Most do a compression check through the glow plugs.

Chris

 

[whynot162]

I have ordered a new head gasket. and will compare it when it gets here. I could not see anything blocked or not covered, but I did not pay attention to how it came off. Maybe I had it on wrong.

The oil is very thin, like diesel, it was puddled up in the rear cylinder. as well as all over the head gasket. But that may have happened as I removed it. It also dumped easily out of the exhaust, almost like water, but did not smell like coolant. exhaust was covered with a can to keep amy rain out, I could not smell it, but had diesel all over me from removing the injectors and lines. So my guess is back to diesel. Maybe the rags would still smell tomorrow for a check?

I have no glow plugs I have a heater of sorts in the air intake pipe.
Someone mentioned that I might hook up the injectors upside down, and see if there is a good spray pattern leading me towards an Injection pump or leaking injector? but could I do this test with the head off? or wait until I get the head back on(pumping oil everywhere)?

And yes, this is a wet sleeved engine.

 

[rsallen]

Unless you have a cracked head it's not likely to be engine oil.
Or at least all wet sleeve engines I've ever seen had the oil gallery located in the outer edges of the engine block. Oil will leak to the outside (On to the ground) or into the water jacket and fill the coolant system before ever reaching a cyl.

Sounds to me like you've got a leaking or bad #3 (assuming it's a three cyl) injector.
Yes you'll want to wait and put the head back on before doing any home testing of those ejectors.
Or it's likely you could find a tester at say any diesel repair shop. I'm sure they'd check the opening pressures for little cost.

Warning do not put any fingers close to those injector tips while testing.

 

[Rich Waugh]

If you have the injectors out of the head, I'd suggest taking them to a diesel shop and have them pop tested. They can tell you if one of them is leaking or dribbling fuel into the cylinder as well as telling you the pressure they pop at. You want them all to be roughly the same pop pressure. I don't know if there is a spec published for the popping pressure from the factory or not. If there's any doubt about an injector, replace it with a new one. They aren't that expensive and they're absolutely critical to the good running and easy starting of any diesel engine. If you mark the injectors as to which cylinder they came from you might find that the injector for the #3 cylinder is drooling, filling the cylinder with unburned fuel.

 

[whynot162]

I got the head gasket back on lastnight, and the rockers. I did this injector test, and the injectors at full throttle are shooting a fuel spray about 3-4 feet up in the air. A mist I would call it.
So, Am I assuming that this means the injectors and the pump are ok?
Also the air comming out of the engine through the injecor holes when cranking it seems to be about the same.
So tonight after work I and going to gap the rockers, and install the injectors and see if I can get it to actually start, and see if it sends liquid out of the exhaust again.
Could part of this hard start be low compression due to the new liners and rings? Or should it be close enough to start?
this is a 2 cylinder diesel, So I should be able to just get the piston to the top on the compression and adjust both valves. That is what I have been doing. the book is not much help.
Thanks
Doug

 

[oldpilgrim]

this is a 2 cylinder diesel, So I should be able to just get the piston to the top on the compression and adjust both valves.

Maybe I misread your post, but it sounds like you said that by putting #1 at TDC, you could adjust both. If that's not what you meant then ignore the following and accept my apology for putting words in your mouth:

You need to put #1 on TDC of the compression stroke then adjust it's valve clearances.

Then move the #2 cylinder to TDC of it's compression stroke and adjust it's valve clearances.


Reading your posts tells me you are a very patient person. Good luck with your project.

 

[whynot162]

yes, that is what I meant, Adjust both valves for the cyl, then move to the next one.
I am about at wits end with this thing. I only use it a few times a year, to till and maintain the road. So I can not justify another one. And when I pull started it, it ran great.
Just got to get this fixed and till the garden... it is that time....

 

[whynot162]

one more note, the new head gasket is the same as the old, and does not cover any holes, or leave any bare block uncovered, so It has to be the correct one. That was one question from above that I did not answer.

 

[rsallen]

What the on the unit injector test DOESN'T tell you is what the opening pressures are.
Unless you have some idea about what you're looking at the test you ran probably tells you nothing.
Why full throttle? What did the atomization of the fuel look like. What was the cone pattern? Was there any leakage after?
As you described the test and results it sounds like you should get the injectors to someone that has a tester to put them on.
I can't say that I've ever tested a diesel injector that would shoot any where near 3 or four feet, as by the time it would get that far away there'd be so little pattern left one wouldn't see any fuel.

Also could you describe exactly how you adjust the valves.
For instance, how do you determine that the top dead center on each cyl. is the compression stroke?

 

[Bob Rooks]

More fuel than necessary travels up the steel lines to the injectors, but they don't necessarily use it all for each piston cycle. The excess that doesn't actually go into the injector gets routed back to the tank.

Not with these Bosch type systems Greg. They aren't unit injectors. The exact quantity of fuel as demanded by the governor is metered by the helix in the fuel injection pumps which is dependent on the rack position. Notice that all of the fuel injection hard lines are exactly the same length. This prevents changes in timing due to the pop pressure swelling for the individual injectors. The "return" lines are just for leak off, and will most likely never see any fuel.
Small amounts of white smoke on a cold start up would be considered normal in most cases due to lower compression pressure due to the components not being at thermal equilibrium and tolerances being greater than normal. Also, cold combustion chambers are another common cause.
The injector pop pressure test is best performed with a special tester found at diesel shops.

Unit injector:

 

[whynot162]

Thank you so much for your help. I am learning that I know nothing about diesels. haha
As far as adjusting the valves, it is a little crude, I can not find the timing marks, So I put a thin wire in where the injector goes, get it down through the pre chamber. When I get the cylinder all of the way up, and both valves are closed, I adjust the valves. There are only 2 cylinders, so I would think this would work. It is not like an old mercedes where you have 5 cylinders, and the valves overlap and I had to be adjusting the intake on one, and the exhaust on another...

the patern was a mist in a cone shape from the injector tip. both looked the same as I cranked the engine

 

[Bob Rooks]

...the patern was a mist in a cone shape from the injector tip. both looked the same as I cranked the engine.

All well and good. Did you notice any dribbling? A chirping sound? But you still don't know what the pop pressure was, and that can affect engine timing.

 

[Brad_Blazer]

Check out this thread and verify you are adjusting the valves properly. It's not the same engine but the procedure of observing operation of the valves should still work. It does sound like you are doing the right thing in your last post. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/chinese-tractors/133397-valve-lash-adjustment-2008-jinma.html
Also verify the operation of the compression release shaft and make sure it is not interfering with the valves when not engaged.

 

[greg_g]

Not with these Bosch type systems Greg.

We're basically saying the same thing Bob. "Leak-off" is in fact unused fuel. And one of the basic tests to see if the hand primer is working is to listen for fuel returning to the tank as it transits the return lines. Your definition also assumes a perfectly timed IP, which we have all learned from experience (on Chinese tractor engines) is generally the exception rather than the rule.

//greg//

 

[rsallen]

If I remember the thread right whynot,
Didn't this machine operate just fine before it was torn down for a headgasket leakage of coolant?

I asked about how you did the valve adjustments because if you didn't turn the engine over enough #2 cyl would indeed be adjusted wrong. For instance, if you had TDC set for #1 and then just turned the engine 1/2 of a turn you'd have #2 cyl at TDC but would be on the overlap of the cam lobes and not on TDC of the compression stroke.

ETD:
Though I do admit I haven't done any work on 2 cyl. 4 cycle engines, I think I've got my math right.

 

[whynot162]

the tractor has been hard to start for years. After finding the leaking liners I was hoping that would cure the problem.
I will look at and follow that thread. Maybe I can work on this in the afternoon today

 

[whynot162]

here is a video of the tractor trying to start.
Tractor engine - YouTube
Also had the preheater hot, and fuel supplied, Still will not start.
It sounds to me like the valves are not closing at the right time? I also pulled the side cover off and the rods are seated in the lifters, and the lifters are all moving up and down fine.
Let me know what you think after listening to it. Sorry the starter is so loud.

 

[jacques54]

whinot162
As what i hear your engine is spinning like the compression release is ON and with a clear air wistle of unseated valves.

Do you back up the adjustment of compression release at least two turn before any valve adjustment?
When at TDC both rockers are free no binding on each cylinders?
I don't know if you have the right valve lash technic, but i'll explain a safe way to do it for all 4 cycle engine (i know).

Scribe a mark on the front cover near the crankshaft pulley.
Rotate that pulley in the apropriate direction, look the EX valve lift (close) and the IN begin to go down (open) you are very close to TDC.
Scribe a mark on the pulley near the one on the FC.
Then rotate the crank pulley 360° and aling both mark.
Now you are ready to adjust that cylinder. You should feel a slight drag on the feeler gauge when the jam nut is tighten.
Repeat the procedure for the other cylinder.

As a safety precaution, be sure to pull the engine stop before bigining.

Jacques