Deutz Timing Belt

[woodlandfarms]

Oops. Camshaft side had to be precise. Crank was easy but had be confirmed in contact.

 

[ponytug]

Yes, the timing belt is done. Yes, the tractor runs, and runs better. I have to admit that I've been dreading doing this for awhile; we use the tractor almost daily, and it would be a big hit not to have it in service. Having never done it before on this engine, I was a little concerned about what I might be getting myself into. In actually changing the belt, the instructions that Woodlandfarms posted are very helpful. (Have a look at my minor suggestions above.)

It probably took me five hours. I could probably do it now in about two, including the valve lash adjustment. Not understanding that the camshaft turns at half the speed of the crankshaft slowed me down for awhile, especially as the darn pin didn't fit well. The other slow bit was figuring out how to take the hood off and where to park it. I ended up using a sawhorse and the rear tire, with the hood on its left side, angled out from the tractor at about 45 degrees, because you need to get to the front left (camshaft pin) and right rear (crankshaft pin) of the engine for the two timing pins.

1) Yes, I removed the hood. I suppose that you could change the timing belt with it on, but it would have been a lot harder. Getting the XXXX#! TS-30 security torx screw out from the bottom of the timing belt cover was...challenging. It is bad enough that it is a security torx, but then to have it in a large channel where you are trying to seat the tool by braille, while reaching around backend of the tub is definitely in the "take a deep breath..." department.
2) I guess we both had trouble with the camshaft pin. The crankshaft pin went in smoothly. I couldn't see the "machined surface" mentioned in the manual on the crankshaft because the level of the tub keeps you from looking straight into the hole, but once you know that there is a stop, it was easy to find. (Thanks for that pointer!) I think that I had the problem of sludge in the cam shaft bore, but I couldn't get it out; I tried Qtips, a 9/32 drill bit (very carefully) and nothing seemed to come out. It had some surface roughness, as it tore up the Qtips pretty heavily. In hindsight, I probably should have blasted a little PB buster or brake cleaner in there, but I didn't think of it at the time.
3) Yes, the weird wrench is the one for use on the hex sided camshaft washer, not the crankshaft. I rather regret not measuring it, so that I could look for one more generically. Your suggestion to make sure that I had a 32mm hex head socket was really helpful for turning the crankshaft- especially after I adjusted the valve lash (big increase in compression effort).

Thanks again for pointing out that the manual does recommend changing the belt every five years at a minimum. Mine was at 10 years of service, and noticeably stiffer than the replacement.

As an aside, I did notice that the 2011 that I have doesn't have the belt cooling option that is supposed to lengthen the life of the belt by 50%.

Thanks again to everyone here. I know that I would be in such a pickle without your help. It is so nice to have the tractor running smoothly.

All the best,

Peter

 

[ponytug]

I checked the pins that I have with a digital caliper. They are 7.51mm, or 0.296”. They are closer to 7.50 at the base, almost as if they under went some post processing that created a reverse taper.

All the best,

Peter

 

[SpringHollow]

Mine are 7.47 mm

Ken

 

[SpringHollow]

Changed my timing belt last week. My pins worked very easily when changing the timing belt. The hardest part of that process was getting the timing belt tensioned appropriately. Note that Deutz sent out a service bulletin that the camshaft should only be turned in the direction the engine runs. I can not promise this is correct but I think the flywheel goes counter clockwise so I turned the crankshaft clockwise.

When adjusting the valves, did you notice that the manual says to increase the valve lash by 0.1 mm every time you change the gasket (a strange metric for valve lash if you ask me). Wish I had adjusted then a long time ago, just like Ponytug said.

Oh, the security screw is the less common 5 lobe Security Torx, not the more common 6 lobe Security Torx.

Ken

 

[woodlandfarms]

Hey Ken

Was this your first time changing the belt? How loose was yours? Did you notice any degradation?

 

[SpringHollow]

This was my first time changing it. Hard to say if it had been changed before. The tension was right where it was supposed to be. The back of the belt was a little glazed.

 

[SpringHollow]

Forgot to mention, my belt was at the proper tension.

Ken

 

[thepumpguysc]

You can get the security bits from Northern Tool for 20.00 a set.. 5 AND 6 sided..
Last set of 5 sided I bought off the Snap-on truck cost me 85.00 for a set of 6 bits w/ 1- 1/4" adaptor.

 

[SpringHollow]

There are some timing pins for sale on Ebay, $37.50 delivered. He also sells a kit with timing belt, pulley, push rods and timing pins for $180.

Search for: Deutz BF4M1011F Timing Belt Installation Tool Pins

I do not know anything about the seller.

Ken

 

[marrt]

Hmm...looks like this is yet another project to put on the list. Just reread Carl's experience with his belt slipping timing. My 1845 is like 20 years old and has never had the belt changed (very low hours though). Nor the value adjustment. I'm too scared to start my tractor now. To make matters worse, I've misplaced my Deutz service manual.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Awww You know us, you don't need no stinkin manual. Its a loss in man points if you open you, you know that, right?

Honesly it is way simple to do and I think we would all be willing to share our hardware. No sense in buying the alignment plugs.

 

[MossRoad]

Oh man, a loss of man points. That sucks. :thumbdown:


:laughing:

 

[cqaigy2]

Oh man, a loss of man points. That sucks. :thumbdown:


:laughing:

Ya but, if no picts of you doing the deed......

 

[marrt]

Ok, I started this project and already screwed up because I was goofing around with my helper. I finished the procedure but failed to re-tighten the cam shaft nut before starting the process to rotate the engine 4 times then re-check the belt for correct tension. This became obvious when the engine suddenly wouldn't rotate anymore. I'm a strong guy so hopefully I didn't bend anything in the engine.

So, I now need to set the timing. Couple of questions:

Does the cam pin fit in a hole and the crank pin fit against a machined surface?
Does the crank have only one machined surface for the pin?
Does the crank nut rotate clockwise to match the engine rotation?

Is this procedure correct for setting the timing:
+ find the cam hole and insert the pin
+ loosen the belt
+ find the machined surface for the crank pin and insert the pin
+ rotate the crank until the machined surface is tight against the pin
+ hold this position while reattaching the belt
+ tighten the belt moderately to hold everything in place
+ set the belt tension properly
+ tighten the cam pulley
+ rotate engine clockwise 4 complete revolutions using the crank nut
+ measure belt tension and adjust if necessary
+ reattach covers

 

[woodlandfarms]

DEUTZ 111 Timing Belt Replacement - YouTube

That said... More than likely you did not bend a push rod for your valves, but clearly you have bumped up into it.

Having replaced the push rods, it actually isn't that big of a deal. Pretty simple in face. Having taken my Deutz top end off I can say that it is a pretty easy engine to work on.

 

[ponytug]

X2 on the video. It really helped me.
Woodlandfarms figured out that there are two places the pin can stop on the hole nearest the timing belt. You want to make sure you get it in the right one.

All the best, Peter

 

[m5040]

I know this is an old thread if some would like to comment, but one should be the master thread for timing belt reference.

My question is, on the Foley site video they replaced the timing belt without loosening the cam gear adjustment.

When I think about it, since the timing was correct when initially assembled, it shouldn't change and really the only variance is from the stretch of the old belt (which may account for some having trouble inserting the 2-pins simultaneously without a fractional rotation to account for the stretch{to move it back into spec}), The new un-stretched belt should bring the timing back to spec which can be verified by the ease of inserting the 2 timing pins. Am I thinking this through correctly?

Most diesels I have dealt with didn't need any timing adjustment of the "metal" parts between rebuilds. Never mind 1000 hours.

 

[ponytug]

My understanding is that pins lock the timing, enabling the belt change accurately. IIRC, you are supposed to check the valve clearance while doing it. (Hence the two pin positions noted above.)

I tend to think of the pins as more a "locking of the existing timing" rather than a timing "adjustment".

Given the widespread use of these engines in all sorts of applications, I tend to mentally cut Deutz some slack for a standard procedure that keeps their engines humming along.

All the best,

Peter

 

[SpringHollow]

That is my understanding as well.