Depression

[dmccarty]

The only viable way the electric powered cars will work is if the electricity is generated off the grid. Which is likely only going to work with solar panels. But those have been expensive. To power the average US home would cost 20-30,000 dollars. Add having to charge your car and the price is going up.

The WSJ had an article last night talking about some technology that IBM has created that looks like it can get the cost of photoelectric panels down to $1 per watt. IBM is working with a Japanese semiconductor company to see if the technology can be brough in at this price point.

$1 per watt is the price point were the panels would be competitive with the grid.

At $1/watt, a 1KW panel is $1,000. If you can generate full power for 10 hours a day that is 10KWH per day. or 300 KWH per month. I think our lowest power usage was 900ish KWH a month. Last month I think it was 1,300ish KWH. During the winter our usage is low since we heat with wood. Summer is the highest due to AC. Last month we had days over 100 so we went to 1,300 KWH. Our yearly KWH average is around 1100-1200. So for $4,000 we could generate most of our power needs. Payoff would be in 3-4 years. Course this is all theory since this technology is not on the market, does not include everything you need, plust installation.

Eventually someone will figure how to get the panels be competitive with grid power. Once that happens and full net metering is allowed there could be some changes in power generation as well as in transportation for some people. Especially if H power cars are available that extends the range of a vehicle compared to a battery powered car AND if one can generate H at home to fill up th car.

We aint there yet. Close. Getting Closer but still not there. "How much longer Daddy?" is the question.

Later,
Dan

 

[N80]

Maybe it's a good thing if people stopped shopping.

I don't think most Americans can be happy without shopping. I mean that seriously. Since WWII we have been conditioned to never be satisfied with what we have. Getting more stuff is what we live for. Its the reason we tell our kids to do well in school and its the reason we spend obscene amounts of money sending them to college. The only measure for success these days is how much stuff you can buy. Dissatisfaction is THE basis for our economy. We never have enough and nothing we have is as good as we want it to be.

Collective, nationwide material satisfaction would bring this economy to its knees.

And I'm not preaching. I've got it as bad as anyone else. It scares me sometimes to think about the amount of time I spend simply thinking about and researching what I want or what I'm going to buy next. And then compare that to how much time I spend thinking about my family, God, my church, my job, examining my own life, etc etc. When you put it in perspective you realize how truly sick we are.

And I think you are probably right. As humans I'm certain we'd be better off without the constant pursuit of something we cannot obtain, which is a mirage called material happiness. But its going to be more like kicking heroin or curing cancer than getting over a cold. Its going to be rough.

 

[N80]

We aint there yet. Close. Getting Closer but still not there. "How much longer Daddy?" is the question.

Later,
Dan

There is almost nothing I hate more than someone citing western Europe as an example of how to do anything right. But they got nuclear power right and we got it wrong.

Duke Power is beginning the construction of the first new nuclear power plant in this country in quite a few years. I couldn't be happier. They could build it in my back yard if they wanted to. Oh wait, there is already one in my back yard (I can see the cooling tower plume anyway) and I couldn't be any happier with that either.

I'm pro nuke in a big way. Love the idea of solar, wind, geothermal and all that jazz too. But nukes can do it right here, right now, without some Popular Science Nostrodomus-like predictions about flying cars and superconductors.

Edited to add: Dan, re-reading my own post this sounds like I'm knocking solar power and other alternative sources. That's not my intent. I'm truly bullish on the new technology, especially solar. When it becomes financially feasible for the home owner, I think solar panels will be fantastic. Especially if global warming is real!

 

[jcurtisB78]

Popular Science Nostrodomus-like predictions about flying cars and superconductors.

How about flying backhoes?

 

[Charlesaf3]

lot of wisdom above. World would probably be a better place if tractor owners had more voice

Two things on electric cars - the battery technology is the hangup currently, and it will take money to solve it. I beleive it can be done now that the will is out there - at cheap gas it cost to much and provided too little. People need an incentive to trade in their hummer.

Secondly, there is plenty of power in the grid for electric cars - just requires a scheme to get them charged at night - off peak pricing has been proposed. Currently the grid is really stressed on peak days, but nights is well under capacity.

THis country could really benefit from a better understanding of financial matters - I am continually shocked by the general level of financial illiteracy.

As an aside, very few US businesses compete with China these days - look at the stats of manufacturing as a proportion of the US economy. Its already long gone.

 

[N80]

I think there is another problem with electric cars. Price. Consider this: I drive only 4 miles to work. Often come home for lunch so maybe 16 miles per day. Over the course of a year that accounts for most of my driving.

I'm doing that driving in a 4 door, 4wd F150 that I bought before gas prices went up. It is perfect for my family of 4 + dog for all my hunting, weekend activities, horse trailer, tractor trailoring etc. But it gets horrible gas mileage.

So what I need is something akin to a golf cart to go to work in. It needs to be able to hit 60mph (max) and needs to get maybe 100 miles on a charge. It needs to be reasonably safe and carry two passengers. It needs to be able to charge on a 110 outlet.

Folks, that technology is already there. But I need one of those AND my truck and there is no way in heck I'm going to pay $20k for a glorified golf cart.

Two things could make one of these affordable 1) mass production and 2) ignoring American's idiotic obsession with idiotic luxury items that make the prices go up like heated steering wheels, power head rests and back up cameras. It needs to have heat, probably some AC for southern climes and a basic radio. That's all. If someone would make one of these for $5-7k I'd buy one and park the truck for the majority of my driving. It would pay for itself in 2 years on current gas prices.

 

[dmccarty]

There is almost nothing I hate more than someone citing western Europe as an example of how to do anything right. But they got nuclear power right and we got it wrong.

Its even worse than that....

The country that did it right is...

FRANCE!

France settled on a couple of different Nuke designs that are standardized around the country. That made it easy to train operators and lowered the cost to build and operated.

The designs and reactors are made in the USA.

Irony Irony Irony.

Where as in the US no reactor is the same. Supposedly, even if an installation has two reactors on one site, the control rooms are different and operators can't simply move from one reactor to the other.

Really dumb.

The pebble reactors sound like a failsafe design and should be cheaper to build and operate. But regardless of the design getting any power plant built brings out the NIMBYs. Even if the plant is built in an existing site.

Later,
Dan

 

[riptides]

I.... Consider this: I drive only 4 miles to work....

Good for you.

We should all be so lucky.

 

[riptides]

....
Where as in the US no reactor is the same. Supposedly, even if an installation has two reactors on one site, the control rooms are different and operators can't simply move from one reactor to the other....

It is good for security.

Now how about those European trains!

There has not been significant track laid in the U.S. of A. since WWII.

 

[bigshovel]

My final thoughts on all previous posts. Everyone has different circumstances in life, the way it is, the way they would like it to be, versus that of others. What is good in ones eyes is bad in anothers. This thread statred with the question of whether a depression is on the horizon or already exists. We have seen every opinion from all who have replied. The general answer is we all have internet, all forms of vehicles that we own have come up, talk of things being pondered for purchase, jobs have come into this discussion as well that tells me all parties involved are not without a roof, vehicle, employment and food. I am thankfull for all I have not jealous of what I don't and feel blessed every day I wake up and am healthy. If I lost everything I own "just stuff" and retained my family and health I would still feel blessed and proud to be in the greatest country on the face of this planet because I have the ability here to get it all back like so many others have in the past.

Brad