Depression

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   / Depression #1  

RonL

Banned
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Dec 22, 2001
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432
Location
Worcester, Massachusetts
Tractor
Caterpillar 416C IT, Caterpillar D3G, previously owned a Ford 1910
Are we headed for a depression? Every time I think things are beginning to turn around there is more bad news.

RonL
 
   / Depression #2  
It was on the news this morning that it's predicted Armageddon will start next Thursday, beginning with a nuclear blast, so we'll never make it to a depression.

Of course, the "prophet" that's predicting this has been wrong twice before, but he's in a huge fenced compound in Texas and....

... wait, what's up with that? How many fenced little towns inhabited by religious sects can there be in Texas anyway?

( I had guessed this thread had to do with RonL stopping by to fill up his pickup )

Phil
 
   / Depression #3  
RonL said:
Are we headed for a depression? Every time I think things are beginning to turn around there is more bad news.

RonL


As long as everyone gets on that bandwagon we will. As long as you continue to spend and carry out your life as normal we won't. You recieved a stimulus check that was borrowed from China, right? Well good then all is well.


Brad
 
   / Depression #4  
From what I see, as a farmer, I think it's very clear that we're heading into a depression. Due to the demand for corn for ethanol, livestock feed has doubled or tripled in the past year. Hay prices have almost doubled due to the rising cost of diesel and gas. We all know what fuel prices have done. Where I live (upstate New York), family farms are going out of business at an incredibly rapid rate. My area is mostly dairy farms, and milk prices for the farmer are about the same as they got in 1974. Yes I know the price of milk in the supermarket keeps going up, but the farmers don't get any of that. Around here, dairy farms are going out of business, because they just can't meet expenses. The same is true for other types of livestock farms.

My wife and I own a goat dairy farm. We were shipping our milk to a cheese processor that is about 75 miles away. Dairy farmers are always responsible for the transportation costs to get their milk to the plant. My wife and I got certified to ship our own milk, but the cost of fuel is now so high, shipping costs ate away at our profit, until we had to stop shipping. We're trying to find a more local cheese processor, but so far, we haven't had any luck.

If the family farm in this country goes out of business, everything will be affected. Milk and meat will come from either corporate farms or from Asia. The quality of their products is nowhere near the quality from small family farms. Corporate farms typically use hormones to get their animals to produce milk or grow quickly. I'm sure you've read about young girls going into puberty too early. That's one of the outcomes of this situation.

And food from Asia, is most like the rest of their products. There are few if any health regulations for food production. I wouldn't want to consume anything that came from there.

On top of that, the family farm is the backbone of our economy. As we go out of business, so will the businesses that are related to us, which will cause more businesses to go under.

If things don't turn around very quickly, I think we will be seeing a repeat of the 1930's.
 
   / Depression #5  
Corn for ethanol.. what a rip... it doubles feed and food prices.. and isn't as good a biosource for ethanol as switchgrass... go figure!

soundguy
 
   / Depression #6  
You got that right, Soundguy!!! Corn for methanol is just creating another problem by raising feed prices. You can make ethanol out of anything organic, even garbage. Switchgrass is one of the best crops to use for ethanol, and it won't keep raising our feed prices.
 
   / Depression #7  
Yep.. we live in a backwards country... weeds can make ethanol.. but we insist on using a huge food/feedcrop to do it...:rolleyes:

heck.. even sugarcane...works for other countries..

soundguy
 
   / Depression #8  
Hemp makes for a good product to. Oil from the seeds and ethanol from the rest. After the ethanol process the must can be used for animal food.:D :D :D It even makes excellent paper, easier process than wood, and also produces fibers that make good clothing.:D :D :D
 
   / Depression #9  
RonL said:
Are we headed for a depression?

I know I am. :(

I think it is a strange thing to be sitting here, watching all this happen and everyone being aware that it is happening, knowing why it is happening and doing nothing about it. I suspect we started circling the drain a good many years ago and did not realize it. Probably some time during the first Clinton administration, maybe even Bush I. But now we realize it and it probably isn't really too late to fix it, or at least start fixing it.

But we've become so soft, greedy and short sighted that we won't. I think ANWAR is the perfect example. Regardless of how you feel about drilling there, or regardless of how much it would actually help, one of the main political arguments about not doing it had less to do with polar bears and penguins than the fact that it will take ten years to get any production from it. Well guess what, that was 10 years ago folks. Again, I'm not making a case for drilling there, I'm just pointing how how short sighted we are. If a measure can't fix things (and line someone's pockets) right now, then we don't do it. Or if it looks like it is going to cause some short term pain to achieve long term benefit, then we don't have the guts to do it.

Make no mistake about it, this is not an accidental decline. This is not like the weather. All of this has been man made and precisely orchestrated. I'm not saying any one group or party is trying to push us into a depression. What I'm saying is that there have been plenty of smart and thoughtful people who have been telling us all along, for the last 10 or 20 years (and in some cases 50) that we have been hoeing down the wrong row. Its like telling a child that if he keeps on eating the candy he's going to get a stomach ache. And as a nation, we're behaving just like you'd expect Augustus Gloop to act.

Augustus Gloop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the original story Gloop falls into the river of chocolate and is sucked into a huge tube. The trauma of being sucked through the tube changes him from short and fat to tall and thin.

And that's what's going to happen to us. Many people ask why bad things happen. Sometimes troubles and hardships are what make us better and stronger. I hope we come out the other side of this better than we are. I think we will. But its going to hurt a little.

For starters its going to take some leadership we can get behind as a nation. I don't think we've had an inspiring leader since Reagan. In fact, I bet its safe to say that in the last 20 years our presidents have been elected more because people were voting against their opponent than for them. And that's a sad state of affairs.
 
   / Depression #10  
I think the "new culture" of our country is the biggest culprit. The "keeping up with the Jones' " gave us the housing crisis. Most expect an instant solution/gratification for everything. Were fine with the war till it got tough and long. Don't want Gov't involvement in their lives till they feel a little pinch in their wallet or lifestyle or a disatster of their own making - then it's up to the Gov't to bail 'em out. Makes me nuts. Expect they are "owed" something simply because they exist.

Ethanol is a non starter IMHO - will never produce enough cost effectively. Even if it does, and some conservation kicks, all it does it prolong the problem. Need alternative energy, and only way it will ever happen is to run out of oil or price it so that new forms become more cost effective.

I dread a depression - but sometimes wonder if it is simply the economy trying to reset itself. The global impact scares me though.

Just some rambling and a little venting......:D
 
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