Deere, 'Bota, or CNH - again...

[Keith_TN65]

Deere, \'Bota, or CNH - again...

It's been a while since I've posted here, but I come around and lurk periodically. Most of my time is being taken up nowadays by my 1 year old daughter. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif With this new time constraint, I'm looking to trade in my old John Deere 790 for something with a hydro-static transmission and that can handle a 6' MMM. I keep about 5 acres mowed as "yard" /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif that is fairly hilly. The 6' deck over the 5' should help cut down on time and I think the HST will also help. (No stopping to slow down in heavy areas or to slow down to make a turn on a hill)

I also like to keep the weight around 2000 pounds. Basically I have narrowed it down to 3 machines. The Kubota B3030HSD, the John Deere 2520, or the Case/IH-NewHolland TC31/DX31.

This new tractor will also be used periodically to do work with a landscape rake and spend some time pulling a cart full of brush, mulch, firewood or whatever. Eventually in the future I would also like to get a rototiller. (Most of the heavy work around here is handled by the New Holland TN 65)

Any input on the above tractors would be greatly appreciated and if by pure luck anybody out there has used more than one of the above, I would really like to hear your input. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I went to a local John Deere and Kubota dealer last night and they did not have any 2000 series Deeres on the lot, they did have a B3030. Pretty nice machine. It seemed to me to sit higher than my 790 but I'm not sure.

The quote I got on the Kubota was $16700 for the B3030 with the RC72-30B MMM. Anybody care to comment if that seems high or low. They also offered me $7500 trade on my 790. (It's a 1999 model with 411 hours)

Thanks

Keith

 

[dbear]

Re: Deere, \'Bota, or CNH - again...

I've been researching ztr's for about a month, but have in the past have extensively compared CUTs as well, and while they are two completely different machines, I've come to believe something that transcends that gap:

They're all about the same in construction, spec, and cost. Consequently, you really can't go wrong with whichever machine you chose.

Certainly there are inferior products out there. However these can be easily weeded out early on and what you're left with is all cream.

Now many will try to sway you based solely upon color, financing, and even the infamous "resale value" - are you gonna use it or sell it - what matters most are the subjective things like comfort and fit.

The factors that carry more weight to me are: (1) Does the machine fit the job; (2) Does the machine fit me, or inversely, do I fit it; (3) Does the dealer fit me, what's my comfort level with their support, or even lack thereof.

Once you answer these questions, you'll find the "right" machine for you.

 

[Keith_TN65]

Re: Deere, \'Bota, or CNH - again...

</font><font color="blue" class="small">(
The factors that carry more weight to me are: (1) Does the machine fit the job; (2) Does the machine fit me, or inversely, do I fit it; (3) Does the dealer fit me, what's my comfort level with their support, or even lack thereof.

)</font>

I agree with points one and two whole heartedly. And normally when it comes right down to it, those will be the deciding factors. However I always have that nagging fear that right after I sign on the dotted line I will discover some obscure (at least to me) fact about the tractor I just bought that had I known before hand, I would of made a different decision.

As for your third point, I agree that the dealer is important, but VERY hard to judge. Two years ago, the dealer I bought my New Holland TN65 from seemed the most responsive and friendly. Since that time I have continued to support them by buying implements and service parts from them, but they never seemed too concerned if they don't have what I need/ want and take my busness elsewhere.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Re: Deere, \'Bota, or CNH - again...

OK here is my take on the 3 tractors.

The JD2520 is only 26hp, at least on my lawn with my grass, there is no way that I could run a 6' mower deck without bogging it down on a regular basis. I run a 5' mower deck on a TC24 and have trouble when the lawn is thick, bog it down too often.

The B3030 is one of the lightest weight tractors on the market, it is a ladder frame design and designed to be light weight. The B7800 is lower cost and less feature filled, but is mechanically & structurally very similar to the B3030 when both are equiped with HST transmissions. Being both small and light, it is ideal for mowing as it does not compact the soil too much. I use a B2910 which was replaced by the B3030, the primary differences between them are sheetmetal and dash updates. The new B3030 does have a hydraulic independant PTO, you may find that a disadvantage for some PTO powered equipment?

The TC31 weighs more and offers more capacity on the FEL and the 3pt, but it doesn't sound like you need it. With a SuperSteer option it would cut around your plantings easier, but overall I can't imagine it being any better than the B7800/B3030 as a mowing machine. It would be better for landscape work because of the extra capacities for lifting, but again only if you need it.

I'd say it would be a toss up between the Kubota & the NH, but I'd let the tasks lean me one way or the other. Heavier tasks added to the mowing would lean me to the NH. Light tasks would lean me to the Kubota. Both the TC31 and the B3030 have lots of features like comfy seats, ratcheting 3pt adjustment, advanced ergonomics (although I like the TC a little better), etc.

 

[IslandTractor]

Re: Deere, \'Bota, or CNH - again...

If you are set on getting a new tractor to mow the B3030 should do a nice job. However, I doubt you are going to save nearly as much time as you might think just by adding HST and a six instead of five foot mower. I would think you'd save in the range of 20-30 minutes max, maybe less, per mowing given roughly 20% greater cutting swath. Of course the time spent getting ready and putting things away won't change at all. That is a pretty expensive purchase per hour of time saved in a growing season. If you mow once per week for five months that adds up to a total of about 8 hours per year. You indicate you could trade in the JD790 so you'd end up paying about $8000 for the new set up. Assuming you amortize it over ten years that is still about $100/hour for the time savings over that period. Of course it's your $$$$. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[daTeacha]

Re: Deere, \'Bota, or CNH - again...

I just took delivery on a DX29, which is the immediate predecessor to the 31. It's a hst model. I shopped long and hard looking at many tractors before deciding on it. The factors that made up my mind, besides the dealer were:

1) Telescoping link arms
2) Amazingly comfortable and adjustable seat to baby my vertebral discs
3) Visibility for loader work
4) Crank leveler for 3 point -- no wrench needed, no ratcheting, etc.
5) Ergonomics -- the controls are all placed in easy reach of my body type. I have 8.5 hours on it and am running the loader, grapple, and 3 pt. without looking at the controls. I formerly had a B7100 Kubota, so this is way different.
6) It's the biggest tractor I could get that still fits where I need to go. The footprint is amazingly small for the power.
7) The loader is built much stronger than others I looked at -- the bucket is heavier stuff, constructed well.
8) Lots of little details that are very nice -- tilt/telescope steering, 12v power outlet by seat, easily removed lights on the ROPS for woods work, good headlights, easy engine access, nicely protected zerks on the loader arms, etc.

I would suggest the 34 over the 31. I find this machine will not pull itself up my driveway in high range with the bucket empty and 900 lb or so hanging on the 3 point. I find myself using low range a lot, medium somewhat. On the little 'bota with 2 ranges and gear drive, I hardly ever used low range, mostly used 4th gear of 6 available.

Lastly, look around. You might find a 33 sitting on a lot looking for a home and get a better deal on it than the newer models. Changes are very minor except for a couple of more cubic inches in the engine and a slower speed (2850 vs. 2600). How far are you from Messick's store? He's near New Holland, Pa.

 

[Keith_TN65]

Re: Deere, \'Bota, or CNH - again...

Bob,

Your logic is sound. I'm leaning towards the B3030 for it's weight. I too was concerned about the JD 2520 not having enough HP to handle a 6 footer when my grass gets high. The dealer I spoke with last night seemed to think that the 2520 could handle it though. I haven't looked at the TC31 (or DX31) yet and probably won't be able to do that until this weekend. I know the DX does not come with SuperSteer, but I do have a soft spot for old Farmalls so I figure I'll at least give a new "Farmall" a test ride.

Island,

Yes, right now the 8K is a little steep, especially just to save a half hour to an hour every time I mow. But there are some other reasons for me wanting to upgrade The biggest of all is the 790 always seemed a little small for me. (The operator station that is) I'm, 6'2" and 220+ pounds. If the seat moved back another 1.5 inches I would fit much better on the tractor. Does that add on to the value for the money... I'm still not sure. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

But one thing I have learned, when the CFO (also known as my wife) appropriates funds for something like this, it's best to use them up as you will never know when an opportunity like this will present itself again. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Thanks for the input guys

 

[Keith_TN65]

Re: Deere, \'Bota, or CNH - again...

Rich,

I'm glad you like your DX29. I've been following your posts pretty close. It seemed for a while that all the Case-IH owners were upset with their tractors but the guys with the Boomers loved them. Had me a bit confused. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I will definately give the 31 (or 29) a look probably this weekend. I agree using a wrench to level the 3 point is a pain. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif Luckily on the 790, I did not have to do it often.

As for being close to New Holland, PA, I'm guessing I'm closer to Funk, Oh since as the crow flys the Pennsylvania/Ohio border is about 6 miles from here. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Soundguy]

Re: Deere, \'Bota, or CNH - again...

I was thinking along the same lines as Island. 8$ plus your tractor i sroughly the trade I made when i jumped from my NH 1920 to my Nh 7610s.. On mine it was about 10g plus my 33hp tractor to go to a 95 hp tractor.. similar condition.. Only difference was i jumped from a 5' mower to a 10' mower.. saved me half the time.. so it was worth it to me.

As others said.. it's your cash.. Have fun with whatever you get.

Soundguy

 

[kingoflawns]

Re: Deere, \'Bota, or CNH - again...

I cant chime in on the JD or the CNH, as i know very little about either. I do however own a B3030. I think you will find the 3030 will weigh in at about 2750 lbs with the weight of the mower & filled rear tires.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Re: Deere, \'Bota, or CNH - again...

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I cant chime in on the JD or the CNH, as i know very little about either. I do however own a B3030. I think you will find the 3030 will weigh in at about 2750 lbs with the weight of the mower & filled rear tires. )</font>

But without filled tires or a loader, the B3030 is under 1900 pounds. The similar, but very basic, B7800 HST is under 1800 pounds similarly configured. The weight of the mower deck is not included in these weights.

 

[kingoflawns]

Re: Deere, \'Bota, or CNH - again...

Hi bob, he said the property has hills so i just assumed the rears would be filled & im guessing the mmm weighs around 300 lbs ?

 

[Keith_TN65]

Re: Deere, \'Bota, or CNH - again...

The MMM weighs roughly 370 pounds accoding to Kubota literature. I will start out without loading the tires. Currently my 790 does not have loaded tires and I attack the steeper areas by going up and down while the others a go across at an angle. It was the low weight of the B3030 that first grabbed my attention. While driving it last night it did seem a little bouncy though with turf tires. (Although I'm guessing the air pressure might have been a little low)

 

[kingoflawns]

Re: Deere, \'Bota, or CNH - again...

Having owned several kubota B series tractors, i strongly recommend you fill the rears.

 

[daTeacha]

Re: Deere, \'Bota, or CNH - again...

Regarding weight, the DX/TC 29,31,33,34 should come in about 2500 bare. Mine has the 114 loader, which is about 600 without the bucket, the QA bucket and bracket, which I'd put at 300 or so, the grapple at 150, and I added about 6.5 cu. ft. of concrete (900 lb. more or less) on the back, so I'm guessing that the whole rig comes in at about 4400 with no wheel weights or loaded tires.

Hmmm. That might be why it's reluctant to pull itself up the driveway hill in high range. That brings it in at about 3 times the weight of the B7100 with less than twice the horsepower. I never added up the weight before. I definitely will not be putting it on my trailer or hauling it behind the Dakota. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[Keith_TN65]

Re: Deere, \'Bota, or CNH - again...

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Having owned several kubota B series tractors, i strongly recommend you fill the rears. )</font>

Is that because they have a high center of gravity? or lack traction?

I will definitely take that into consideration. Especially if it is due to a high center of gravity

 

[ronjhall]

Re: Deere, \'Bota, or CNH - again...

The B3030 is a great tractor for mowing. The B7800 will also fit your requirements for a tractor with HST. I like the mower better on the B7800. It has a caster wheel on each corner. Makes it much easier to move when installing and removing mower.
I can cut 2 acres per hour with my 72" MMM on a B2910. B3030 replaced this model.

 

[daTeacha]

Re: Deere, \'Bota, or CNH - again...

My B7100 was an early issue, but not much different from the latest ones. It was pretty tippy with the loader full, but otherwise not bad on my hilly ground, especially with 400 lb of bush hog running behind it. Part of the problem with stability was the short wheelbase (48" or so), part was the narrowness (about the same to outer edge of the tires), and part the light weight (about 1350 lb with loader). The 15" ags in the back were loaded, but they only held about 75 lb. of fluid each. That helped, but not enough to make me feel safe. I also had about 10 gallons of concrete hanging on the 3 point, which helped, but again not enough to make me feel safe.

It was bull strong for it's size, reliable as an anvil, and would do anything reasonable I asked it to do plus some unreasonable things. I just needed something bigger for my body (6'2", 215, long legs and arms) and more comfortable for my back (disc problems and other things). I found the new B series Kubota's to have seats that made me feel like they were trying to throw me off and ergonomics for the controls that just didn't fit right. When I sat on a DX26, the comfort and ergonomics won me over from the Kubotas. Then I made the mistake of sitting on the 29/33 and there was no going back, especially after comparing the actual footprint size, not apparent visual size. It took a while to justify the costlier tractor in my mind and some careful measuring of height of my doorways and the tractor plus a whole lot reading about getting one size larger than you think you need from the guys here. I'm just sort of wondering if I should have gotten the 33 now, but I suppose if I had done that I'd be wondering about the 35. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[kingoflawns]

Re: Deere, \'Bota, or CNH - again...

The rear tread is not adjustable, and yes the center of gravity, imho , is on the high side with the turf tires. The 3030 i demmoed did not have filled rears & the stability is much better as is the traction with the weight. My machine has 150 lbs of citris star in each rear tire.

 

[daTeacha]

Re: Deere, \'Bota, or CNH - again...

You can get a lower C/G by filling the rears to only 40 or 50 percent instead of the usual 80% or so. Just set the tire so the valve is at 3 or 4 o'clock instead of 12 and fill to the valve. A set of wide turfs filled this way could put a considerable amount of weight low and to the outside, which would increase your stability both from the C/G and polar inertia standpoint.