Deere 4720 vs. a TC45DA

[whistler]

Hello,
I've been reading posts on this site for awhile now and find myself in a dilemma. I hoping your opinions will help. I had convinced myself on buying a Deere 4720 with a 400cx loader, but alas I though I owed it to myself to research other colors. I've always had a soft spot for Ford (8N, 1953 Jubilee) and have had good experiences with come older TC series New Holland’s. I also had good experiences with Deere. I don't care for orange (I mean the actual color, not Kubota/Kioti, really). And the orange dealers are not handy for me anyway. Both dealers (Deere/NH) are good and about the same distance from me. So here's the situation, I do landscaping work on the side right now but it may turn into a full time business for me. This work includes lawn installation, grading, retaining walls, mowing, trenching, etc. I'm trying to decide on the important features of each tractor. And which one will withstand commercial abuse (er. use) the best for many years (i.e. I'm not selling it). I've read some posts about long term availability of electronic parts for the brains on the newer tractors and agree that this is a real concern, being a software engineer I've had direct experience with this.

I like the LoadMatch on the Deere as well as the auto-level 400cx loader. I don't care for the non-swivel seat, the full length joystick and the "flimsier" hood.

I like the SuperSteer on the NH as well as the general ergonomics. The lack of an auto-level loader disappoints me since I occasionally unload sod, brick, etc. from flatbeds. I don't like that the largest tractor I can get with HST is the 45DA as I would prefer the 55DA, but HST is a big must for me.

Options, opinions and experiences are greatly appreciated. Also for the sake of argument let’s say cost is not a factor.


looking forward to your responses, I think this site is great!

 

[bam747]

I see from your profile your are located in WI, so I assume you are at a relatively low altitude.

Since the naturally aspirated TC45DA with Hydro is rated at 38.5 PTO HP, you might consider the JD 4320 with its turbo charged 40 PTO HP as a more apples to apples HP comparison. This would also save you significant money over the 4720 price.

Then again, I'd probably buy the 50 PTO HP 4720 anyway!

Scotty, I need more power! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[whistler]

Thanks for the recommendation. I couldn't agree more, but as I said the TC55DA doesn't have HST. BTW I'm only about +700 from sea level. It also occured to me that if money is not an object (as I said above) then I should just buy both /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif but sadly I must only chose one, as the crusader would say from Indiana Jones "Chose wisely".

 

[BrianSouthernMD]

whistler,
Have you considered other compact equipment that might be more appropriate for your plans to expand your landscaping business and for your construction/renovation hobby?

I own a 56hp Bobcat Toolcat work machine with 4-wheel-steer, 4WD, HST, oscillation, front lift arm for front-mounted attachments, etc. It's designed to do the work of a skid-steer loader, compact tractor, and utility vehicle all in one unit.

But many other compact machines might be considered. Bobcat presented some good talking points about some of its machines used in landscaping:
* you need to handle heavy materials, need plenty of power like skid steer loaders for lifting, carrying, loading, unloading;
* You need to work in tight quarters, so consider small strong equipment like mini track loader;
* You need to protect the turf on every jobsite, so Bobcat has compact track loaders, an all-wheel-steer loader (A300) and the Toolcat utility work machine.
* Need to be able to own or rent lots of different attachments for specific job at hand.

Learn more about the Toolcat in TBN's new Toolcat forum. You might also find the Be Your Own Boss website from Bobcat helpful in deciding how to expand your landscaping business. (And you did ask for feedback with cost not being a factor!)

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

if you plan on running a preseeder we have found that NH tractors have one of the only 3pt hitches that consistantly hold up under the really rough demands that those attachments put on them. We replace quite a bit of linkage on other brand machines because their 3pts just don't hold up as well.

 

[whistler]

Thnks for the input! I had seriously considered the toolcat, but I find that the loader lift height is not quite enough to get into some of the large dump trucks I have to deal with. The website also lists the loader at 1500# (pivot or 500mm?). I need more capacity than that for sod/brick pallets. Also I love tractors so much that I have a hard time switching to a new concept like to toolcat (as great as it might be). Who knows maybe my business will work out so great that I'll have to get the tractor and the toolcat /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Does anyone know of an after market loader (or loader kit) for the TC45DA or TC55DA that has the auto-level feature?

 

[BrianSouthernMD]

whistler,
Toolcat full lift height is only 84", and it is limited in its ability to lift 2,000-lb.+ pallets (such as for sod or bricks) to a five-ft. flatbed truck level, even with latest lift arm improvements (and assisted leveling!).
Good luck in your search! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[whistler]

I do use preseeders, however, I've not had problems on the JD's I've used what's your experience? Thanks.

 

[jcmseven]

Whistler,

It is no secret I am partial to green. I did not stumble upon this loyalty though. Having owned some 12 John Deere machines between my father and I, and knowing people who owned both New Holland and John Deere, I feel John Deere is tough to beat. I have seen the new offerings from New Holland, and I think they are very impressive. I think NH makes an excellent machine. That said, I own a 4520 JD and can tell you what I like about my machine. The tractor is very easy to use and unbelievably smooth, even on rough terrain. It has stronger hydraulics and a marginally stronger loader. It has great headlights and I like the tilt wheel and joystick quite well. The attachments as large as they are, are a snap to change with I match. Also, the loader, for its size, is one of the easiest to remove/install I have ever seen. Finally, and most importantly for me, the power. The PowerTech engine is a monster; is fairly quiet and quite good on fuel (so far). I would say this would be where the most difference would be seen. The 53 hp engine in my machine feels like it has more than that, and will easily handle any of my jobs. Combine that with strong dealer support and great resale, and to me it's a winner. I feel either machine would be good, but I cannot imagine you would be disappointed with the John Deere.

John M

 

[whistler]

Thanks for the reply. I too am still leaning towards green. If only they had SuperSteer! I've also been thinking that because of my loader requirements I would need the TC55DA at a minimum, but it doesn't have HST. This kinda pushes me to the 4720. MessickFarmEqu's post regarding 3pt ruggedness bothered me a little. I currently use a preseeder but since the area I live has such extremely rocky soil I was considering switching to a rock picker. I've been considering this one:

http://www.hbarber.com/StonePickers/Stone_Pickers_Rock_Pickers.aspx

Does anybody have firsthand experience with these (or a similar brand) in comparison to a preseeder? Thanks again!

 

[bam747]

Going with the "money is no object" theme...

Have you thought about stepping up to a 5x25 series utility tractor? They are a lot more tractor with a lot of very nice features not really available on the 4x20 series.

The 45 PTO HP 5225 is actually rated at 5HP less than a 4720. I'd probably step up to the 65 PTO HP 5425 to get its higher hydraulic flow capability (18.5 GPM implement versus 13.5 GPM for the 5225 and 5325). There is also the 55 PTO HP 5325 or the 75 PTO HP 5525.

Although Deere does not offer a HST on the 5x25 series, you can get them with a 24F/24R hi/lo power reverser WITH a "standard" or "high speed" creeper option (according to the JD configurator). That would give you nice FEL operation with the advantage of gears for heavy duty ground engaging implements plus the super low gearing for going very, very slow at rated engine speed for 540 RPM rated PTO speed when needed. Also, they do offer the 540/540E rear PTO. The "E" means you can operate the engine at a significantly reduced RPM while still getting the required 540 RPM PTO speed. This is a very nice fuel saving feature when your PTO requirements do not need the full rated PTO HP.

You can also fit the 5x25 series 4WD with a 542 MSL FEL. I'm pretty sure that has enough lift and height capacity as well as mechanical self leveling for your stated needs (2134 LBS at 800mm/31.5" ahead of pivot, 3093 LBS at the pivot, at full height of 126"/10' 6"). Although Deere doesn't offer SSL style QA for the loader attachments, you can purchase this option from ATI (lets you use SSL attachments).

The 5x25 series also offers a factory mid mount 3-spool joystick controlled FEL valve setup (thumb toggle control for 3rd function from 110 TLB). That would be very nice for FEL attachments with 3rd function hydraulic requirements (grapple, blade, etc). They also offer a very nice 3-spool rear hydraulic setup with 3 individual spool control levers. Nice option for T&T or other auxiliary hydraulic needs. There is also a power beyond option for BH attachment (many different choices in BH).

As for tires, they do offer the 5x25 series with several different sizes of R1, turf, galaxy turf, and R4 tire sizes.

And finally, if desired, you can get them with a nice air conditioned and heated CAB right now!

From everything you've said here, the 5x25 series seems like it fits your requirements much better than the 4x20 series.

Hey, you said "money is no object"! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[whistler]

OK, OK. What I really should have said is price differences between the listed options are not a factor. BAM I had to keep myself from drooling when reading your description /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif and if money truly weren't factor I would consider the 5x25 series. The downside is the size. Although most customers have at least one acre I do some work for people with ~0.5ac. Plus, I need to have a relatively tight turning radius for working up close to the house / trees. Also I don't want to completely crunch/rut existing grass. I'm not really considering a BH since I think I'll need an excavator. I do egress window installs occasionally which typically require me to dig down to the footings (around 12ft). Most tractor BHs won't go this far down. Keep the advice rolling. Thanks again.

 

[whistler]

Thanks for the input guys. I don't mean to give myself a bump but I wondering if anyone had experience with the rock picker (or similar pickers) I listed earlier and how they would handle on the 4720/TC45DA/TC55DA. Specifically do they work as well as advertised and do they leave a seed bed equivalent or better than a preseeder. Thanks again.

 

[ddivinia]

I have both a 4720 and a 5525 cab. They are both very nice machines. If I didn't want to haul a batwing mower around, I would just get a 4720 with a cab. I do with the 5525 had HST, but the power reverser is not bad. For nice delicate work, the HST rocks. For mowing fields, etc - the power reverser is fine. The ePTO is pretty slick and really saves fuel.

From what you say, it sounds like a 4720 is a good fit. I wish they had the 400CX when I bought mine, but I can live with the 400x FEL.

Later,
D.

 

[Turkeyman]

I was faced with your same problems about 8 months ago, I had a Hydro TC 35 and LOVED it. It has all the creature comforts you mentioned( seat, rabbit/turtle, lights, 3pt lift). It fit me and my partners but it lacked power @ 30PTO hp. Also with a WR Long 4 in 1 bucket ( 550lbs)it lacked load capacity. We now have JD4720 and there is no comparison, but it has 20 more hp at the pto. I had the pleasure of going to Augusta and driving the 4720 and a 5525 (cab) and the stronger unit won, but it is unfair( 50 to 75pto hp).
Demo both at your place for 2-4 hrs at the 4720 will blow the TC45 away.