Deer vs. Apple trees

[Jstpssng]

Thanks, I thought I read people on here were raising them up to prevent reaching over to nibble.

You can add a strand of electric fence every 8" to prevent that. It doesn't have to be live to deter them.

 

[Mtsoxfan]

A have an unused, but weathered roll of 1/32? wire my neighbor used to fence in horses.
How do you hang wire, vertically or horizontally? May sound like a dumb question, but have never seen fencing around apple trees before.

 

[ning]

Thanks, I thought I read people on here were raising them up to prevent reaching over to nibble.

If the fence is so close to the trees, it has to be taller; I've seen larger fencing schemes for gardens and orchards which don't require super high fences but instead two fences one outside the other, both short enough that the deer could jump either, but it can't jump both and they don't want to jump into a small space between. If you have too big a space underneath, deer can also go under...

So, similar with your tree rings - if close enough to the tree to nibble, must be tall enough to keep them off; but put it a few feet from the tree and a 5' fence would probably manage! I went with 6' rings when I had the deer issue, used cheap 2x4 welded wire.

Not my pic:

If you use a wire with a bit more structure, and stake the wire down to the ground in a few spots, you can do without the fence posts, though the fence posts may come in handy to keep the tree growing straight (I usually don't bother; my trees come up straight enough). I use a 2' piece of #3-4 rebar which I bend the last few inches over into a fairly tight hook - stick the end of the rebar into the pin hole of the truck receiver hitch and then pull - and then you can use the rebar as a stake and hook the top over some of the fence, not the very bottom or you'll have a hard time finding & getting it out later. Three such stakes for a smaller circle, four for a bigger one, don't need a fence post unless the fencing is super wobbly (like chicken wire).

A few years later, I ended up putting a good perimeter fence around the whole property and took the tree rings down and sold them on CL, recouped a bit of the cost, plus I had no use for a big stack of 20' sections of fence...

 

[rumwrks]

I'm currently in the "weird pallet structures in the field" phase of the project since I could get them free and slap them up fast... I'm in the property growth phase so my ambitions have outstripped my supplies a bit in some regards... (basically second year on the property so I've had enough time to decide what to put where and it's time to get doing it..). I have several thousand of feet of 9'+ chain link the previous owners left behind but it needs to be pulled out from the wolf kennels and re-purposed in the orchard location to be useful... so... that's not a small a project... maybe next year...

My next phase is the standard two layer hot wire fence because that can go up fast as well.

Voles are a terrible problem this year as well, our neighbor lost 50 some apples this year, up to 4" in diameter due to girdling. I've been shallow tilling around the perimeter(they don't like open ground). For new plantings we're putting steel wool/fine mesh in around the roots plus a 1/4" mesh collar buried 4" down with 12" up out about 6" out the tree.. I lost a couple of smaller trees that were here before me but they were in a "not great" location anyway so I'm not mourning their loss over much.

I'm also lime washing the older trees but also adding a little copper sulphate and diatomaceous earth added (essentially a whitewash like bordeaux mix heavier in lime, lighter in copper, plus a dash of diatoms for smaller bugs, and a sprinkle of latex to make it extra sticky). The copper makes the mix bitter so a lot of stuff leaves it alone, doesn't take a lot (that's actually why they started using bordeaux mix - it kept people from picking the fruit because you had to wash it off or it was bitter.. the anti-fungal/anti-bug characteristics were discovered essentially by accident some centuries afterwards).

 

[Jstpssng]

Voles are a terrible problem this year as well, our neighbor lost 50 some apples this year, up to 4" in diameter due to girdling

I lost one of the trees I planted last year because for some unexplained reason I didn't put the mouse guard up on that tree. I will be cutting it off and trying to graft a scion onto another tree.

Depending on how far down into the ground they girdled, he may be able to save some of the larger trees by bridge grafting. Extension | Bridge Grafting – Saving Tree Life Despite the Odds

I spent a week doing that very thing years ago in the orchard I worked at. It's not that difficult...
After all I did it.

 

[rumwrks]

Depending on how far down into the ground they girdled, he may be able to save some of the larger trees by bridge grafting. Extension | Bridge Grafting – Saving Tree Life Despite the Odds

I haven't seen them, but the claim was they were basically eating down into the roots. I've saved .. or at least repaired a couple of yard trees some friends hit a bit to hard with the string trimmers with that technique and one cherry my moms dogs took out in her garden. It's a good trick when it works for sure!


The ones I saw on our hillshide they were mostly above that.. so I'm kinda hoping maybe the root stock will come back and I can get a little rootstock farm going (it's definitely dwarf dwarf though and I've been moving to more semi-dwarf or even - for the cider apples - full sized) so I'm kinda meh either way on the ones I lost.

I have done like 20 some scion to rootstock grafts this year... and have some coming in for bug grafting a failed prune plum rootstock (the OG graft looks like it failed maybe 5 or 10 years ago.. but the rootstock is a healthy small tree). That's all kinda new to me - I've done a little branch grafting and a couple of bud grafts but not anything at this scale.. we'll see how it goes, it's a learning experience

 

[Jstpssng]

I haven't seen them, but the claim was they were basically eating down into the roots. I've saved .. or at least repaired a couple of yard trees some friends hit a bit to hard with the string trimmers with that technique and one cherry my moms dogs took out in her garden. It's a good trick when it works for sure!


The ones I saw on our hillshide they were mostly above that.. so I'm kinda hoping maybe the root stock will come back and I can get a little rootstock farm going (it's definitely dwarf dwarf though and I've been moving to more semi-dwarf or even - for the cider apples - full sized) so I'm kinda meh either way on the ones I lost.

I have done like 20 some scion to rootstock grafts this year... and have some coming in for bug grafting a failed prune plum rootstock (the OG graft looks like it failed maybe 5 or 10 years ago.. but the rootstock is a healthy small tree). That's all kinda new to me - I've done a little branch grafting and a couple of bud grafts but not anything at this scale.. we'll see how it goes, it's a learning experience

I have never done bud grafting but would like to try; do that in the fall, don't you?
There is an old pear tree on my family homestead which I have been trying to graft from for years with no success. This year isy last chance, the property will be going on the market on the fall. We did have somebody from Fedco Trees come to try and identify it, and also try to get some trees started; but I lost her number and she has since moved on.

 

[rumwrks]

I have never done bud grafting but would like to try; do that in the fall, don't you?

I've seen it done mostly in late summer. The guidance I've seen is you want there to be enough growth time for the graft to heal, but not enough for the bud to grow a lot. I'm kinda deciding how i want to deal with this mess still.. I'm not sure. I might just graft the scions onto a branch and then steal some buds from it next year if it survives.. that's *probably* a safer approach...

There is an old pear tree on my family homestead which I have been trying to graft from for years with no success. This year isy last chance, the property will be going on the market on the fall. We did have somebody from Fedco Trees come to try and identify it, and also try to get some trees started; but I lost her number and she has since moved on.

Wow, that'd be nice to keep alive! I guess I'd take as many scions as I could asap.. dormant them in a fridge (no fruit in the fridge to keep ethylene out) for a couple weeks and just go crazy on trying different rootstocks and maybe try both whip and tongue with some and cleft grafts with 3-4 scions per with some if you can snag some larger rootstocks (prune the excess in a year or two if multiple take). I've seen some discussion about rootstock compatibility and it's usually decent with pear to pear (and less often pear to quince) but sometimes it's still a crapshoot. My gardening practice for quite a while has been to just overwhelm my incompetence with volume... heh. I don't think it'd be crazy to buy a $100 or so of rootstock varieties to try to save that tree if you can though. Worst case you have a small pear orchard you end up having to graft something else on....

WSU has a decent guideline on pear rootstock compatibility, but since you're working from an unknown that might even be an outcross.. I think I'd kinda shotgun it since you're at your last chance.

Rootstocks for Pear | WSU Tree Fruit | Washington State University

treefruit.wsu.edu

I'm VERY much a grafting neophyte despite having done a bit for some years the volume was to low to be like "useful" so yah. For what it's worth.

 

[1Mech]

Have you tried a single strand PB coated electric fence?
An uncle had a large watermelon garden that the whitetails loved. His solution was a 1 strand electric fence which he then "coated" with peanut butter. He'd put a glob of PB in a glove and just run the wire through the glove, giving it a light coating. The deer would lick the wire, get a severe shock and not come back.

I read this in the "perimeter alarm" post, it might just work well for the deer, but probably not for the other varmints!

 

[goeduck]

I routinely prune the lowest branches off every year trying to create the first branches too high for deer, elk or cattle (depending on which property). Elk are mostly on one property and one of the orchards on a second property does get grazed by cattle 2 or 3 times a year. That one has stout fences around the young trees, but I still prune up since the fences come off after the trees are mature enough. Deer are more delicate around trees. Elk, not as much and cattle are brutal if they start shoving each other around and run into a tree. All eat the young branches, elk will chew the entire tree to the ground if under 1 inch or 2 diameter.

 

[jyoutz]

My solution wasn’t easy, but it absolutely works to keep deer away. I constructed a one acre field fence 8.5’ high around my orchard and garden. It was a bit of work, but it’s been working perfectly for about 8 years now. The big gate has a wheel to support it because it’s 12’ wide and 8’ tall.

 

[goeduck]

8.5' high would do it !! Nice work.

 

[Dftodd]

I have some older apple trees on their last legs, so I am slowly adding apple trees to replace them. They are in my yard, more like landscaping trees that produce apples. I went out today to do some pruning, and I find that deer (I think) have nibbled off some new growth branches. trees were planted last year, figured they were 2 years old. Is there any good way to deter the deer from nibbling without having to put a fence up? A fence would take away from the view, but if that is the best way, I'll just have to suck it up for a couple years until they are tall/big enough to survive the deer snacking on them.

I know people who have sprayed hostas with a cayanne mixture that works for deer, not sure if anyone has tried on an apple tree. Any suggestions will be appreciated.

I made up some cayenne pepper spray once and sprayed it all over my garden to try and keep the critters out.

What I learned is critters in the south love hot sauce on their veggies

 

[Jstpssng]

I remember that in the 1950's or into the 60's that I saw fruit tree trunks "painted" to about the four foot level. I was under the impression that it was lime that was used. FYI: at my age memories are unreliable.

I finally found my Fedco Trees catalog. They are organic but have some handy hints. They recommend a mix of interior latex paint and joint compound to paint the trunks.




I also have seen a recipe using milk and lime, but can't find it now.

Voles here go under the hardware cloth below the soil level. They also in a few cases climbed up on top of the hardware cloth and chewed the bark there. I can't seem to win. My thought was to paint the trunks with plant guard, but still use hardware cloth. I have about a dozen young trees that need to get planted this year and next.

That same catalog I mentioned above also states that they've found Narcissus keeps the voles away. Whodda thunk that planting daffodils along with the trees would help to protect them?

 

[DarkBlack]

That same catalog I mentioned above also states that they've found Narcissus keeps the voles away. Whodda thunk that planting daffodils along with the trees would help to protect them?

Not saying it’s not true, but with today’s replacement tree cost, I wouldn’t rely on that. I remember back when hanging scented soap bars was all the rage in certain circles. I used the smelliest Irish spring bars.
Not only did I find some expensive young sweet cherry saplings with almost all winter buds chewed off, but the bars of soap were 1/3 eaten too.

 

[ponytug]

I think that things like narcissus, alliums, and thyme is that they are a deterrent, rather than a shield. The active poison in narcissus is lycorine, and toxic to a wide variety of animals, including cats, dogs, horses, and humans.

https://www.gardenia.net/guide/plants-that-voles-will-avoid

All the best,

Peter

 

[Jstpssng]

I think that things like narcissus, alliums, and thyme is that they are a deterrent, rather than a shield. The active poison in narcissus is lycorine, and toxic to a wide variety of animals, including cats, dogs, horses, and humans.

https://www.gardenia.net/guide/plants-that-voles-will-avoid

All the best,

Peter

At any rate, I will try them because I have nothing to lose.

 

[kenmbz]

The mice seem to like the irish spring soap. What a mess that was.
Why I cage everything that the deer will eat, which is almost anything.
They even ate all my forsythia. 25 plants all nibbled down.

 

[fishin coyote]

I live by this rule concerning the local deer population “You can’t have anything nice without a fence around it “.

 

[bigtiller]

The mice seem to like the irish spring soap. What a mess that was.
Why I cage everything that the deer will eat, which is almost anything.
They even ate all my forsythia. 25 plants all nibbled down.

Yep, deer will eat or try to eat anything.

I had a 24" orange traffic cone in the waterway of my corn field marking a spot for spring work.

Deer took a few bites out of it.