Deer Fence Design

[nate_m]

With as much time and money as I have invested in starting my vegatable garden this year, I figured it would make good sense to take the extra step and put up a good fence. My main enemy is deer. We have a large population around the property that has become accustomed to people and even the dogs.

I have a design in mind that will incorporate a "three rail" fence that is popular around here (southern Ohio) with an electric fence. I hope to have something that looks good to human eyes but means business to the deer.

See the picture for my design concept. I sketched up a side view of what it might look like.
The reason for the angled portion of the electric fence is to provide the "3-D" effect that I have read on this site and others is very effective in keeping the deer from jumping over. This would face away from the garden.

My questions for y'all are:

1. Will this work?
2. Any suggestions for improvement?
3. What is a good way to attach the fiberglass pole to the top of the post?

Thanks in advance for any comments and suggestions.

~Nate

 

[mikim]

I don't know what your spacing is on those lower boards - but I've seen deer go between the wires of a 4 string barbed wire fence -- at a run.

 

[chatcher]

You have deer but no rabbits?

 

[tallyho8]

If those 3x5 posts are landscaping timbers, they usually have a very light pressure treatment and will not last more than a few years as posts. You would be much better off using 4x4s which are more heavily preserved.

 

[ToadHill]

Studies at Cornell show the deer can jump over an 8ft fence so make sure it is high. With the higher attachment facing outward it should be effective. The other system I've seen that works is one with 2 fences the inner is about 6 ft high and the outer is at a 45 degree angle from the base of the inner with wire strands run through it so the deer can't get near the inner fence to jump up.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

You have deer but no rabbits?

I agree with what chatcher is getting at. A 3 board fence looks nice but it will do nothing to keep rabbits, coons and other varmits out of your garden. Unless you are going to put fenceing behind the 3 board. A 2x4 fenceing maybe with a finer mesh along the bottom to keep the rabbits out. And keep the fence line clear of all weeds so you can see if something is trying to dig under (you could lay some chicken wire along the ground to discourage digging but that would be up to you).

I personally just use a 5' woven wire fence to keep the deer out of my garden. It is tall enough that they will really have to have some ambition to want to get in. And there is plenty of other food outside of the fence so they do not bother trying to go over my garden fence. Now I only use 5' woven for a temporary fence. If it is going to be permanent I would sink 12' post into the ground and put up an 8' woven wire fence with a fine mesh over the woven wire along the bottom 2 o 3'. We use 8' woven wire to keep deer into pens and wild deer out and have never had a problem with a deer going over.

 

[BTackett]

We had the same problem in our large garden and bought a 3D coyote archery target and set it up near the garden three years ago and NO deer or Rabbits! We take it down after we turn the garden for the fall. Works like a charm. Cabela's or Bass pro sell them for about $79

Bill

 

[EastTexFrank]

If ever there was an appropriate post, this is it. Because the deer have devastated my garden for the past 3 years, I wasn't even going to put one in this year but the weather started to get nice and I couldn't stand it. I tilled it up last weekend but I'm going to put a full fence round it this year. I've tried just about everything including an electric fence that worked well for a month or so until they worked it out. I watched them jump over the top of the 4' high fence and a fawn go between the wires without touching them.

This time I was going to build a fence almost exactly like yours but with woven wire around the bottom and the electric wire on top. A friend also suggested a commercial spray called "Deer-Off" (?) which has to be applied every 2 or 3 weeks. Another suggested spraying coyote urine around the garden but how do you get them to take a leak in a bucket in the first place?

 

[chatcher]

A short fence has worked for me. Yes, I'm sure deer CAN jump over it, but they don't. Maybe my deer are lazy, maybe scared, maybe have easier pickings elsewhere, or maybe my crops aren't attractive enough to jump for. Last year I had peppers in an unfenced plot and they ate the tops off all the plants. I won't make that mistake again.

My worst deer problem has been with apple trees. Year before last I bought a bunch of varieties of apple trees and planted them in an open pasture. Before I knew there was a problem, deer had eaten them. All of them, down to the ground. Oddly they didn't touch the peach trees. I was frustrated to say the least. I don't want to deer fence the whole pasture, and I don't know an easy way to protect individual trees. This year I'm trying again on a smaller scale and will try small makeshift fences around each tree.

Your design looks good to me except for leaving the bottom part open. If I go to the trouble to put up a fence, it needs to keep the hungry rabbits out.

 

[mikim]

but how do you get them to take a leak in a bucket in the first place?
Frank -- That's not gonna be as big a problem as convincing your wife that the beer you just bought is for the coyotes.....esp since you quit drinking.

 

[patrick_g]

Deer can jump high (over 8 feet) and they can jump wide but they can't jump high and wide at the same time. Horizontal extensions of lightweight material at the 8 ft level at the top of a conventional fence will discourage deer.

Electric fences up in the air won't do the trick as the deer can't touch the ground and the hot wire at the same time.

I have seen deer crawl on their bellies under the bottom wire of a 5 wire barbed wire fence instead of jumping the 4 1/2 foot fence and other times clear an 8 ft fence.

To keep critters (all critters big and small but not winged) out of the garden can be done but requires a fence with close spacing for the first few feet and must be tall.

There are outfits selling the materials for making horizontal extensions on the top of fences to deter deer. These are not so much a physical barrier as a visual one. If it looks too high and wide to jump the deer will not challenge it.

Pat

 

[wedge40]

I have a neighbor who has a garden each year that looks like it's out of a magazine. I've looked at his settup as I drive by and here is what he does.
He uses the standard T-Posts for the main fence. He has electric fence starting about 6 inches off the ground then the spacing get progressively bigger as he moves up. I think he has about 4 rows or electric fence. He then places 4 or 5 ft. PVC on top of each of the T-Posts and puts a couple of lines of cloth around the top section. I'm guessing the top part is to keep the deer from jumping in and the bottom keeps the "critters" out. If I ever get around to putting a graden in again this is the plan I will follow.

Wedge

 

[patrick_g]

I have a neighbor who has a garden each year that looks like it's out of a magazine. I've looked at his settup as I drive by and here is what he does.

Wedge

I too have a neighbor with a garden every year right out of a "Better Homes and Gardens" photo layout. He has no fence at all around it. A couple years ago he had a problem with cantaloupe disappearing the night before he planned to pick them the next morning. After several occurrences he staked it out and shot 3 dogs.

I have no clue why he doesn't have deer problems as it is not for a lack of deer. His place is right at a frequently used deer crossing on the highway.

There is no single right answer.

Pat

 

[studor]

You also have to watch the nearby elevation - I have seen deer choose the up slope near a fence to clear twelve feet of fencing beside a conveyor system to get at the nice grass beside it. They would then run along the beside the conveyor until the slope was the right way to exit.
Sudden onset lead poisoning (which occurs when 150 grains of lead hits the animal at about 2600 fps) is a very effective way of stopping dear in the garden (if legal of course) !!!

 

[RobJ]

Electric fences up in the air won't do the trick as the deer can't touch the ground and the hot wire at the same time.

It took 11 posts to get to this. Patrick is the man!

8' will usually do the trick, around here you see the big (as in tall) T posts with some 6x6 hog wire. More at the bottom if you want to keep the small stuff out.

If a deer is on the run or spooked they'll take a shot at a high fence. But in my hunting years when they were just out for a meal, they'll walk through a 5 wire fence 75% of the time, 25% they'll crawl under.

Rob

 

[nate_m]

Electric fences up in the air won't do the trick as the deer can't touch the ground and the hot wire at the same time.

Pat

That is an excellent point, Pat. I'll have to rethink the placement of the electric wire if I use it at all. It's hard to beat the price of electric fence, though.

If those 3x5 posts are landscaping timbers, they usually have a very light pressure treatment and will not last more than a few years as posts. You would be much better off using 4x4s which are more heavily preserved.

That's interesting and disappointing. I would have guessed that pressure treated is pressure treated. Those timbers are half the cost of a standard 4x4.

I agree with what chatcher is getting at. A 3 board fence looks nice but it will do nothing to keep rabbits, coons and other varmits out of your garden. Unless you are going to put fenceing behind the 3 board. A 2x4 fenceing maybe with a finer mesh along the bottom to keep the rabbits out. And keep the fence line clear of all weeds so you can see if something is trying to dig under (you could lay some chicken wire along the ground to discourage digging but that would be up to you).

I like the idea of putting a smaller mesh on the bottom. I haven't seen rabbits but I haven't been lookin either. Coons are around for sure.

He then places 4 or 5 ft. PVC on top of each of the T-Posts and puts a couple of lines of cloth around the top section.

Do you mean PVC pipe stuck over the top of the post or a PVC mesh fence? I am having a hard time visualizing this. Intriguing because it could be a very low cost alternative to wood.

Thanks everyone for the input. These are some great insights that I never would have thought of without a lot of trial and error.

Long live TBN!

~Nate

 

[mjfox6]

Electric fences up in the air won't do the trick as the deer can't touch the ground and the hot wire at the same time.

You just have to run a hot and a ground wire up high. They touch both when they jump up and get zapped. Would love to see a video of that!

One of the locals here just has a short electric fence. He only turns it on at the beginning of the season until the deer learn. He uses peanut butter on aluminum foil hanging on the wire to teach!

 

[texasjohn]

Nate, all I might have said has already been said.... when you find the perfect answer, post it and you'll become famous

 

[derifarm]

From what I've seen up here in Maine, a two fence system works well. Basically, have two parallel fence lines spaced six feet apart at about 3' off the ground. I've even seen this using only single wire fences. Apparently, the deer will jump one fence no matter what, but they don't like to be stuck between two. I've also heard that you sort of have to train the deer by putting pieces of foil on the wire and bait it with peanut butter. (Oh, I see mjfgox6 pretty much posted the same thing.)

The downside is that you have a six foot wide perimeter that needs to maintained between the two fence lines. Electric fence is a psychological barrier, not a physical one!

I've seen a stuffed coyote be quite effective for geese as well. I like the idea of buying the 3d coyote target.

-Justin

 

[RobJ]

You just have to run a hot and a ground wire up high. They touch both when they jump up and get zapped. Would love to see a video of that!

To me you want to deter them from trying to jump. Once one jumps in (or maybe a dozen jump in!!!) then you have deer that won't jump out!!