Decisions, Decisions

[Anonymous Poster]

Folks,

OK - I've been lurking here for about 4 months, reading up while trying to figure out what color and size tractor I need. Thanks to everyone for the help that you've (unknowingly) provided. This last weekend the 'ol ford 3600 I've got became stuck in the mud on our place yet again, and I think this time the Boss ( er - wife) is finally sold on a 4WD compact, especially if it means she gets HST.

We've got 20 acres, lots of brush, lots of up/down, lots of clay. I'm going to be building a guest house, new garage, drainage ditches, maintain our gravel road, dig post holes - the usual.

I'm also gonna get rid of the ford.

All that said, I'm sorta stuck between the blue 'uns and the orange 'uns, and the size of each ...

Current Favorite Blue Options:

TC40D, R-1 Tires, 16LA Loader - $22,584
TC45D, Same as above - $24,675
758 Backhoe on either of the above, $6881

Current Favorite Orange Options

L3710HST, R-1, L682 loader - 19,350
L4310HST, R-1, L682 loader - 21,950

Still waitin' on a backhoe quote. These are both rental returns with about 50 hours on 'em

I'm also looking at the woods and bradco backhoes. I'm pretty suer I want a subframe mounted one. Any input on the ease (or lack thereof) of taking the hoe off and on when I want to use 3 point equipment?

Right now I'm leaning towards the 4310 from a price/features standpoint - but I'm 6'5" 210lbs and the TC4xD is more comfortable for me ... but any input and/or advice welcome!

Thanks!

Jim & Vanessa (The Boss)

 

[MChalkley]

Jim & Vanessa -

First things first: Welcome! (BTW, if you register, you can get e-mailed when somebody responds to your question, not to mention feeling more like you belong. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif)

As to your questions, there's no runts in that litter, so you'll be happy with whichever you pick. Now that the obligatory politically correct (and very true) disclaimer is out of the way...

I'm a former owner of an L4310HST and one of the attachments I had for it was a Bradco 609 backhoe. I can enthusiastically endorse both as excellent pieces of equipment. I predict that if you were to go with that combination, you'd be very happy with it for a long, long time. In fact, though you didn't say what you plan to do with it, it's not likely you'll ever outgrow it, assuming you're looking at the right sized equipment in the first place. There's a thread I started in "Customization" called "L4310 enhancements" that has a lot of my experiences with my L4310HST. It's a fantastic machine. I also wrote a review for the TBN Reviews section, and updated it in December when I got my new machine, which is more industrially-oriented for landscaping/mult-purpose use. There were some very good prices posted here for the Bradco backhoes here on TBN recently, too.

If I may be allowed to be very opinionated on one point: Yes, you definitely want a subframe-type backhoe on this size machine!!! Nobody builds a better CUT backhoe than Bradco. I'm not saying there aren't some others that are really good, but there are none better.

In short, the L4310HST/Bradco backhoe combination is definitely a winner! And please keep us posted as to what you do and how you use it.

 

[daffyduk]

Jim, I kinda went through the same process. Demoed green, orange and blue. I've been a JD fan since I could say da-da . I still have my Dad's 630 and my brother has his '50. I digress. If you've tested all three, go with your guts. I don't think any are bad. I ended up with the NH TC40 D with 16LA loader. I got two sets of whl. wts., two frt wts. , grill guard and heavy duty bucket. Total was about 10% less than JD and within a couple hundred of Kabota. Priced the Red and the same tractor (except color) was almost $1100 more. NH just felt more comfortable and had much greater visibility. I have about 30 acres some hilly, some woods and two, acre
and a half ponds. The only problem is that I still have a real job and I have to get off of the tractor and go to work. Other than that the little Boomer is a ball.

My Boss really likes it too

Gene

 

[PaulinSD]

I'd seriously look at keeping the Ford, and look for a good, used tractor/loader/backhoe. The compacts have a hefty price. My first t/l/b was a Ford 4500. Not pretty to look at, but she did a lot of work for me at a reasonable price of $4000. Just something to consider. Good luck.

Paul

 

[JohnInCA]

I would encourage you to buy the one that is the most comfortable to operate. I'm 6' 10", and I choose blue (TC29D) because it was the best fit for me. Easy to get on and off (no obstructions, or cramped, uneven floor), and the most comfortable to operate. Believe me, if you're uncomfortable, you'll be unhappy in a short time.

As for the backhoe, go for the Bradco. I have a new Bradco 408 that arrived today. They're built like a tank, and are easy to mount and dismount. Although I have a TC29D, I'm familiar with the 35/40/45D subframe kit, as the dealer initially ordered and delivered that kit by mistake (been waiting 4 weeks to get the correct kit). The 35/40/45D subframe is simple, easy to install, and STOUT. The TC29D subframe has many more pieces, and will probably take the whole day to install. Both kits are designed so that the subframe stays on the tractor. Also, you don't have to remove any of the 3 point linkage to mount the backhoe. I will be installing it this weekend, and will post some pictures.

 

[glennmac]

I think you are looking at the right sizes. Other things being fairly equal in your mind, I would say that these should be your buying priorities:1. Which machine do "just like" better--in terms of comfort, looks, feel, gutfeel, and pride of ownership.2. The dealer. In terms of honesty, no BS, helpfulness, physical proximity, and the experience of his mechanics.3. Price.4. Specifications. They'll all do the job just fine. Don't torture yourself with microsurgical dissections of unprovable spec claims.I don't own a backhoe, but I've been researching them for over a year and have reached the conclusion that, for the size of tractor you are looking at, Bradco has the best hoe. Not to say that the others won't do a fine job, too.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

In comparing the NH TC45 vs. the Kubota L4310:

New Holland has really done their homework the last few years… the TC45 has more hydraulic horsepower than the Kubota L4310… using the Bradco hoe on the NH you will have fast response and enough flow-rate and that’s using the existing hydraulic system already there… the Kubota would be slower response unless you went to another hydraulic pump {PTO driven, etc.}

The NH has about 600 lbs. more mass than Kubota…

The NH has a roomy operator station than Kubota…

The NH has more usable horsepower than Kubota…

For the difference of about $2600. spread out over a 20 year period… is mere spit @ $130. yr. more for much more…

{and not considering the John Deere 4710/4700, but it has more than both NH & Kubota…}

Good luck in your ultimate decision… /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Boondox]

John -- I'd be really interested in those pics!

Pete

 

[JohnInCA]

Take a look in the "Attachments" section under "Installing a Bradco backhoe". I've started the process and posted a few pictures...

 

[jcarius]

Well, folks - thanks for all the help thus far.

After reviewing our situation, and what we hate and like about our current tractor, we've decided to move down a class. So the field is now the JD 4300/4400 Hydro, the NH TC-33D/29D and the orange L3010/3410 HST.

So far, each has got it's pluses and minuses, and if we find the "right deal" on any of 'em we'll probably go for it. In general:



I prefer the NH layout, controls, and overall feel.

My wife prefers the JD (though we both agree it feels 'flimsy')

We both prefer the HST on the kubota. Easier,smoother.

We're gonna get a loader and backhoe, as I mentioned before. I've got a question about each:

Loaders. The NH 7308 has a lift capacity of 800 lbs? This is a couple hundred pounds ( 20% !!) less than the kubota 481, and about 400 lbs (30% ...) less than the JD 430. Is this right? Am I missing something?

Backhoes. For the L3410, the dealer recommends a bushhog backhoe, rather than the kubota, as the smaller kubota hoe (the 4690) comes only as a 3 point mount rather than with a subframe ... is this right?

Final question:

Ok, so in each of these cases we have the top end tractor for the class, and the "step down". In REAL LIFE will I notice the difference? In what kind of situations?

Thanks again for all the help.

Jim & Vanessa

 

[Boondox]

Jim -- I was seriously looking at the 4300 before getting my L3010, and two things swung me to the Kubota. (The NH dealer was way too far from me.) (1) I liked my local Kubota dealer much better. JD kept me waiting all the time, and their service dept was not the best. (2) I priced five parts I thought might be needed over the life of the tractor and found, at least in my area, that JD parts cost a LOT more than Kubota.

You might want to consider that part of the equation.

Pete

 

[butzkeg]

For people that are really torn on which tractor to buy, why not have a form they can fill out to rate each model they are looking at. Rate them on a point scale, 1-5 with 5 being highest.

The tractor at the end with the highest mark might be your personal favorite in the end. I threw something together very quickly, maybe as a starting point. Maybe Muhammad could throw a bigger/better version of this on the site somewhere, if it's something people would find helpful. Check this out: http://www.geocities.com/gbutzke/tractor_rating.htm

 

[John_Mc]

<font color=blue>Loaders. The NH 7308 has a lift capacity of 800 lbs? This is a couple hundred pounds ( 20% !!) less than the kubota 481, and about 400 lbs (30% ...) less than the JD 430. Is this right? Am I missing something?</font color=blue>

I noticed this when I bought my TC33D. One thing that is not clear from NH specs is WHERE they are measuring the loader capacity (measuring at pivot pin, bucket center, or "500mm forward" makes a big difference in the stated capacity). I never did find out where NH measures it.

I ended up going with a Woods Model 1012 FEL. It fits the TC33D well, and has about 300# higher capacity than the NH 7308. I've been happy with it so far, no troubles, other than an initial hydraulic leak at the loader control (has since been fixed). If you go this way, definitely get the heavy duty bucket. You have a choice of 60" or 66" bucket. I think if you have the R4 tires (and maybe turfs or Ags set wide?) you may want to go with the 66" bucket to be sure to cover your tracks with the FEL.

 

[frank_f15]

would make a lot simpler if u liked only one of them, but it is difficult to choose ain't it?/w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif i was stuck bet the jd and kubota. but my needs were different than yours. is there a chance u can try them all out? then pick the one that u AND THE BOSS both like best. u won't be sorry with any of them.

 

[EdKing]

Do you have a LongAgribusiness dealer near you ? If you do , you might want to look at the LandTrac 360DTC. I just purchased one with a Loader and a Backhoe for $22,000. Backhoe is subframe mounted, has a digging force of 2,850 lbs. Loader is also subframe mounted, lifting capacity 1,250 lbs, breakout force 2,800 lbs. Has alot of nice features, 2 hydraulic outputs standard, 3ph has position and draft controls standard. 3ph is rated at 2,976 lbs, 24 inches from rear hitch points. The only feature it doesn't have is the HST. I have put about 40hrs on mine in the last 2 weeks, and have had no problems. This past weekend I pulled a 56' x 12' mobile home up a slight incline to a spot I had leveled with the backhoe and loader.

Hope this helps,

Ed King

 

[jcarius]

Folks,

First, thanks for all the help and feedback thus far.

I think we're finally in the home stretch here. We've decided to "go green", mostly because
(a) the boss (err.... wife) likes the tractor
(b) It was a toss up between the Blue and Green for me
(c) we liked the green dealer substantually more than the blue
(d) the quotes the CFO (err... wife) got were basically the same cost for comparable models.

We will be getting a "harvest return" tractor. Here in CA often the are used strictly for pulling trailers - they're supplied to the growers without even a 3pt hitch!

So now for the final decisions:

We're looking at either a 4300 or 4400, hydro, 420 loader, 48 backhoe. The bottom line package price differential is $2250. Now the way I figure it that's 1/2 way to a PTO chipper, which I also need. Will I really notice the 3hp difference over $2 grand worth?

What is the real difference between the 420 and 430 loaders?

Thanks a bunch ...

Jim

 

[John_Mc]

I don't see much difference between the 4300 and 4400 tractors except HP, especially since you are getting HST transmission (the standard tranny in a 4400 is a 12/12 synchreverser, which is an option on the 4300). Whether the 3 HP difference is significant may depend on what you hook to the PTO, I can't imagine it being a real issue for pulling power (traction is usually the problem on compacts).

I'd take a look at the requirements of the Chipper you are considering. While 3 HP isn't necessarily a make-or-break deal on a chipper, if the one you want has a HP range that pushes the limits of PTO hp on a 4300 (25.5 PTO HP w/HST) then I'd be inclined to bump up to the 4400 (28.5 PTO HP w/HST). I didn't see much else in your plans that would push the limits of your HP. Either will handle a 5 ft brush cutter without much trouble.

420 Vs 430 Loader: (can be mounted on either 4300 or 4400)
(1) 430 has a higher max lift height (101.4" vs 87.6") This might be a factor if you were trying to dump into the side of a truck, for example.
(2) 430 has a higher rollback angle on the bucket (30? vs 24?) not sure if that is significant for you.
(3) 430 has a significantly higher breakout force (3299# vs 2693#) and a slightly higher lift capacity (1258# vs 1195#)
(4) 430 is slightly slower than the 420, but not noticably so (0.1 or 0.2 seconds on most specs). The only significant difference is in loader raising time, which is to be expected, since you are raising it higher (about half a second longer on the 430)

 

[jcarius]

Folks,

Wanted to give a quick note of thinks to everyone who's helped me figure out what
to do. Amazingly enough I ended up with A Deere, which was actually not on my short list. The
determining factors ended up being the Deere hydraulics, Ergonomics, and an _excellent_ (fairly) local dealer.

Final Decision:

JD 4300
430 Loader w/ 4N1 bucket
48 Backhoe
gearmore Top N Tilt
gearmore box scraper with hydro rippers

This is gonna lighten my wallet a bit, but it'll be nice to finally have some nice machinery round here!

thanks again,

Jim

 

[Boondox]

Very nice rig, Jim! If my local Deere dealer had been better, I would have been riding one just like it instead of my trusty orange beast.

Pete

 

[Williy]

have you seen this:

willy