Dealer Service

   / Dealer Service #31  
Don't know which have an over ride button and which don't actually. I guess my big issue with it is it takes additional fuel to regen and ORD ain't cheap and with the largest ones, you have the DPF fluid as well to purchase. I believe Dennis told me over 100 pto horsepower, the DEF comes into play.

How does it notify you when it requires a regen? An idiot light on the dash or a audible warning or what?
M4 is 6 years newer so it has a display option to tell me how close it is to needing it which helps a lot and it's pretty easy to plan around the regen, there is an idiot light and an angry buzzer if you ignore the idiot light for some set amount of time.
 
   / Dealer Service
  • Thread Starter
#32  
Follow up - dealer came through and tractor is back. Failed temperature switch replaced, and problem confirmed to be wire pulled from connector which I had diagnosed but didn’t have help to disassemble the cab to get to the connector (which was not where it should have been in the pictures in the WSM - it should have been an easy repair for me but due to the difference my tractor and WSM, the entire cab floor needed to be removed along with disassembling the consoles.
 
   / Dealer Service #33  
After reading MHarryE’s thread (thanks BTW-very informative) seems like to me that it’s bad enough that owners of these tractors are saddled with the extra expense and maintenance. At least the manufacturer could make the system simple and easy enough to work on that the owner can get it going quickly.

Don’t throw the “environmentalist dream package” on a stinkin farm tractor and make it add $5,000 in cost and make it difficult to fix on site.

I’ll own a vehicle with an after treatment system, but I’d doubt I’ll ever own a tractor with one. Too many nice 10+ year old tractors out there without it to pass up on. Heck the 10+ year old ones can be difficult to fix
 
   / Dealer Service #34  
You know that we have digressed as a society when you take your tractor to the dealer for repair and a guy comes across the yard with his tools to repair your problem and those tools consist of a laptoop and USB cable. That would all be fine if they understood what they were seeing in the program and knew what to do with the information. For the most part these dealers have no clue. They are flying by the seat of their pants and shotgunning problems.
 
   / Dealer Service #35  
I would really like to buy a new tractor in the future but I am very hesitant because of things mentioned in this post. I am not a mechanic and don't want to become one. I do however want equipment where I can utilize friends that are mechanics to help and not be beholden to a dealer to fix things on their timeline when I am broke down. Then worry about the manufacturer not holding up their end on warranty.

A buddy of mine was talking new boats and brought up that boats manufactured in the last 2 years have lost the quality and are having lots of littles issues here and there. When you pay 50 to 60 grand for anything, you should not be worrying about parts failing and coming apart/rusting, etc. within a few hours of use. I have read on here numerous times where folks buy a new tractor and have to have it worked on several times to get it to run right. That should not be the case ands in my opinion "unacceptable". We should be able to buy a new tractor and not have to worry about a dealer if the equipment is put together correctly.

I know this next statement has nothing to do with dealers/tractors but we have a sister church in Ohio that has been there for a long time. They have a playground that was built by the depression era folks who were all tradesmen. Machinist/Tool and Die/Welders, etc. That playground is probably 50 years old and built to stand the test of time. My big but can sit or climb on any of it and it does not move. I am always impressed when I see it. I believe we have lost that desire to build things to last. I also believe all of this new "technology" is making us less resilient and when it does break you are screwed. I deal with this everyday for my line of work. Call the "Help Desk", and hear there are 97 callers ahead of you!!!! No wonder we can't get anything done.
 
   / Dealer Service #36  
You know that we have digressed as a society when you take your tractor to the dealer for repair and a guy comes across the yard with his tools to repair your problem and those tools consist of a laptoop and USB cable. That would all be fine if they understood what they were seeing in the program and knew what to do with the information. For the most part these dealers have no clue. They are flying by the seat of their pants and shotgunning problems.
I Agree to a point and that is, the laptop and the proper adapters as well as the scan tool dealers have that the tractor builders provide to them as an interface will tell the tech generally what is wrong but the tech still has to remove and replace the defective or malfunctioning parts or parts, the computer won't do that for him or her. Guess my dealer is one of the exceptions as they don't 'fly by the seat of the pants' that I can see.

All this electronic and emissions related wizadry is about the EPA and their mandates and fir the most part, they are administered by book smart people with no hands on experience in the first place.
 
   / Dealer Service
  • Thread Starter
#37  
Emissions regs written by people with no experience - not true, my perspective from the manufacturer side. Lots of discussion among the manufacturers and people writing regulations about what can be done and what timeline. Things written into the regulations about getting credit for engines built significantly better than required and using those credits to continue selling engines not meeting the standard so all models didn't have to be changed at once. We in the industry were integrating computers into our machines long before the first Tier 1 standard became effective in 1997. Today's Tier 4 standards were set in 2004 with the first Tier 4 implemented in 2012. By the time Tier 4 was set, engine companies had a lot of research and bought into the timeline. They were not numbers pulled out of the air. Some companies ran into snags when they discovered their planned methods didn't pan out as expected. From the industry side, there was a lot of customer input as to what they wanted in their future purchases and a lot of the input dictated computer controls whether the EPA standard was dictating they were needed or not. For me, I could manage my test fleet from wherever I was using my laptop to download the data, including fault codes, every day. That ability is not built into smaller tractors but its how JD can shut down tractors and combines stolen from Ukrainian farmers, and the same can be done for tractors and combines (of the higher end units anyway) stolen in North America.
 
   / Dealer Service #38  
Emissions regs written by people with no experience - not true, my perspective from the manufacturer side. Lots of discussion among the manufacturers and people writing regulations about what can be done and what timeline. Things written into the regulations about getting credit for engines built significantly better than required and using those credits to continue selling engines not meeting the standard so all models didn't have to be changed at once. We in the industry were integrating computers into our machines long before the first Tier 1 standard became effective in 1997. Today's Tier 4 standards were set in 2004 with the first Tier 4 implemented in 2012. By the time Tier 4 was set, engine companies had a lot of research and bought into the timeline. They were not numbers pulled out of the air. Some companies ran into snags when they discovered their planned methods didn't pan out as expected. From the industry side, there was a lot of customer input as to what they wanted in their future purchases and a lot of the input dictated computer controls whether the EPA standard was dictating they were needed or not. For me, I could manage my test fleet from wherever I was using my laptop to download the data, including fault codes, every day. That ability is not built into smaller tractors but its how JD can shut down tractors and combines stolen from Ukrainian farmers, and the same can be done for tractors and combines (of the higher end units anyway) stolen in North America.

What I see here is a giant opportunity for some tractor company to leap over competitors.

By now it is pretty obvious that the problem with repair is that the customer feels left out of the loop. They feel that they have made a large investment in something that they have no control over and no way that they can be involved even if they want to be. Insurance and warranties are one answer, but have proven not as satisfying to the buyer - or to the dealer for that matter..

One answer for that would be for a dealer to require that at least some of their employees have more education about their products and be willing to help. But that is difficult, expensive, and takes time if it works at all. It is the traditional route, but no longer seems to fit our workforce.

Maybe it would be enough to just make a simple start toward customer satisfaction. First steps don't have to include everything. If a manufacturer decided to help a customer feel comfortable about dealer support, that customer would be encouraged about doing some of the basic maintenance and adjustments. And in turn, might then better about taking it to the dealer for any more involved work.

At least it would be a step in a better direction.
The way we are going now - promoting the "hands off" approach - doesn't work for me, and is drawing a lot of criticism along with very little support. That spells opportunity for someone.

rScotty

rScotty
 
   / Dealer Service #39  
I think your phrase the customer feels out of the loop is spot on...
 
   / Dealer Service #40  
Kubota software may be different but the JD software only gives them generic solutions to codes. What the software does is give them a full array of analog and digital I/O that is very helpful with toroubleshooting problems if the tech knows how the system is supposed to be working and he knows how to translate what he is reading. Typically what I see is that a code, say an EGR code for the flow sensor, is active and their first inclination is to change the sensor. Probably not what the problem is. It could be the EGR valve causing a low flow or the EGR cooler that is interrupting the flow somehow. The good, sharp techs that are motivated know how to interpret these issues and the others simply shotgun. I think we very likely have a lot of shotgunners out there.
I Agree to a point and that is, the laptop and the proper adapters as well as the scan tool dealers have that the tractor builders provide to them as an interface will tell the tech generally what is wrong but the tech still has to remove and replace the defective or malfunctioning parts or parts, the computer won't do that for him or her. Guess my dealer is one of the exceptions as they don't 'fly by the seat of the pants' that I can see.

All this electronic and emissions related wizadry is about the EPA and their mandates and fir the most part, they are administered by book smart people with no hands on experience in the first place.
 
 
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