Damaged block installing block heater L5240

[Coyote machine]

Bondic maybe a solution, depending on how accessible the holes are. I haven't used it, but want to throw it out there as a possible solution to replacing the block or engine. At this point the OP has little to loose from attempting a repair that might work, so long as it isn't a series of failed attempts, which would get old real fast.
I believe, from what I read about Bondic; (related to a plastic radiator gooseneck repair in another thread here on TBN), that it is supposed to 'weld' anything, by using UV light as it's curing method. This might just work if the holes can be filled with the material and then cured with the UV light, after thoroughly cleaning the mating surface, whatever and where ever it turns out to be located behind the freeze plug hole.

To the OP- get us pics if at all possible to help with solution suggestions.:thumbsup:

 

[kuboman]

The water jacket does not extend below the cylinders so you will have drilled into the cylinder. The question will be are the holes above the piston at bottom dead center. Since you said it was spewing out the exhaust then I think we know the answer. If the engine is stopped with that piston at BTC then you will fill the cylinder with antifreeze and hydro lock your engine causing more damage if you try to start it. You will likely need to tear down the engine to repair that cylinder.

 

[KYKub]

Seems incredible that you, being careful because you didn't know how much room you had behind the frost plug, would have drilled through a cylinder wall. As others have said, sorry you are in this predicament. We've all done boneheaded things, but it doesn't seem like you were being reckless or careless. Big bummer.

Threading the hole and sealing it with a set screw seems like the option I would vote for. I'm always amazed at the clever folks here on TBN and their willingness to help.

Good luck!

 

[buickanddeere]

Tap, set screw and braze it in place.

 

[The Fred]

What are the chances KTAC might cover this? Even though I bought it used, it was from a dealer and the insurance was included. Or would this be considered neglect or misuse?

Just call your insurance company before taking any more steps.

Good luck, Fred

 

[kuboman]

You need to make sure that the hole does not interfere with the piston. If it does and you put in a screw or weld it the piston will hit the repair.

 

[sandyc]

If both the crankcase(oil) and the cooling system are showing signs of contamination I am wondering if the block is cracked at the drill site. Sleeving the cylinder might be possible but I think I would be looking for a new short block or used engine if the tractor is worth repairing.

 

[firemanmike69]

I'm another one for the drill /tap repair after you explore the extent of the damage

 

[Agvg]

This hole is at the bottom of the bore?

 

[Adiredneck]

We spent Saturday skidding logs with the L3400. I am thankful that I have it. We had to pull the 5240 out of the garage, remove the dozer weights of the 3PH, remove the canopy, and push it to the rear of the garage with the 3400. I drained the oil/antifreeze mixture per the instructions from my uncle. Said I did not want the antifreeze surrounding the crank/bearings if the damage is minor. Dad is still perplexed at how I was able to drill through Cast Iron that easily. I hope he's right and I have drilled through into an oil passage or something.

At this point, I'm ready to move on. I ordered a USB inspection camera yesterday. Should be here by Wednesday. If I can't snake it around the crank to see the damage, the most logical next step is to pull the head.

 

[dodge man]

I'm going to throw another idea out here, maybe the oil and antifreeze problem is not related to installing the block heater, another problem may have cropped up at the same time.

 

[kuboman]

The block is surprisingly thin around the cylinders. I think if you do a search there is another thread where someone did the same as you.

 

[ovrszd]

Before I tore the engine down I would do some investigating. I would also get another set of eyes to help me, simply because I would so distraught that my power of reasoning would be junk.

I'd start with a piece of small wire that will enter the holes. I'd poke in and see how far the wire goes in before hitting anything?? What I'm reasearching is if the holes are above the piston when at BDC?? Or are the holes below the piston skirt at BDC?? Did I drill thru two cast iron walls?? That would have to be the case if I drilled into an oil passage. If I only drilled thru one cast iron wall the oil is getting contaminated with coolant only. This dramatically changes the course of action to fix it.

I'm struggling with oil puking out of the exhaust without any adverse engine sounds when running??? Maybe the crankcase immediately went over full enough to cause that?? And if that's the case and you removed the oil dipstick, wouldn't coolant eventually run out of the dipstick hole if you kept filling the radiator?? Gravity and such??

If the holes are above the piston at BDC wouldn't compression leak into the coolant system?? If so it would puke coolant when running??

I think these answers have to be found before you go any further. Depending on the answers the holes might be easy to repair. I think the biggest problem now is your coolant system is breached into the crankcase.

 

[Weaselfoot]

As I read through this account, my feelings began to agree with "dodge man'; that is I am not convinced that the problems with the water in the oil are related to the block heater installation. When I re-read your initial description of the drilling you stated, " I collected my thoughts and took a small nail and felt around in the small holes I had drilled. They are maybe 1/8" deep, 3 of them. Around 5/32" in diameter". If the holes have depth then they didn't penetrate any wall, otherwise you would have said the holes went through metal maybe 1/8 thick. None of the walls in the engine would be that thin. Look for another cause. This is just a cruel coincidence. You didn't mention that you drained the coolant before you started. I assumed that you did a quick replacement so that little coolant was lost. It would have been normal to tell us that you lost very little coolant. Was the coolant low to begin with? If so, what caused the coolant loss?

 

[Adiredneck]

I'm struggling with oil puking out of the exhaust without any adverse engine sounds when running??? Maybe the crankcase immediately went over full enough to cause that?? And if that's the case and you removed the oil dipstick, wouldn't coolant eventually run out of the dipstick hole if you kept filling the radiator?? Gravity and such??

Ovrszd:

I think I can explain this better. In relation to the radiator, which is the highest and lowest place where the antifreeze resides, I put in about 2 gallons of antifreeze. Figure that the block heater is approximately the height of the middle of the radiator. I estimate that I got about a gallon of straight antifreeze out of the drain plug. The tractor has the split drain pan with two plugs. The straight antifreeze flowed only out of the right side of the engine, the side of the block that the heater was installed. It reinforces my theory that the antifreeze was allowed to flow straight down into the pan with nothing else in the way.

If it comes down to it, I have located a machine shop that can weld the hole, bore the cylinder and re-sleeve at a fraction of the cost of a new block. I am becoming more optimistic as time goes on.

 

[kuboman]

The holes may not be above the piston at bdc but if they are there would not be much if any pressure inside the cylinder at that point. Anitfreeze that gets in the cylinder then blown out looks a lot like oil as it mixes with soot.

 

[ovrszd]

The holes may not be above the piston at bdc but if they are there would not be much if any pressure inside the cylinder at that point. Anitfreeze that gets in the cylinder then blown out looks a lot like oil as it mixes with soot.

At BDC of compression stroke there will certainly be some pressure, much more than the radiator would have. I agree with your description of the coolant blowing out the exhaust.

 

[ovrszd]

I'm struggling with oil puking out of the exhaust without any adverse engine sounds when running??? Maybe the crankcase immediately went over full enough to cause that?? And if that's the case and you removed the oil dipstick, wouldn't coolant eventually run out of the dipstick hole if you kept filling the radiator?? Gravity and such??

Ovrszd:

I think I can explain this better. In relation to the radiator, which is the highest and lowest place where the antifreeze resides, I put in about 2 gallons of antifreeze. Figure that the block heater is approximately the height of the middle of the radiator. I estimate that I got about a gallon of straight antifreeze out of the drain plug. The tractor has the split drain pan with two plugs. The straight antifreeze flowed only out of the right side of the engine, the side of the block that the heater was installed. It reinforces my theory that the antifreeze was allowed to flow straight down into the pan with nothing else in the way.

If it comes down to it, I have located a machine shop that can weld the hole, bore the cylinder and re-sleeve at a fraction of the cost of a new block. I am becoming more optimistic as time goes on.

I agree with your theory concerning the pure coolant in the ride side of the oil pan. I'm very confident you drilled thru the bottom portion of the cylinder. I'm thinking when you could only poke the nail in 1/8" you were hitting the piston skirt. You might try rotating the engine by hand to see if there's a point when you can poke your nail further in?? This would indicate the piston is at or near TDC and your nail is poking into the cylinder below the skirt.

I just can't think your holes are high enough to be above the piston rings and into the compression chamber. If so, there would be a LOT of strange things going on. Sortta like a blown head gasket allowing compression into a coolant jacket. Will puke coolant badly.

Not being able to see the situation it's a bit hard to give solid advice. If the holes are below the piston rings and the only problem is allowing coolant into the engine block I'd consider a shadetree fix such as JB Weld or some other quality product. All it's gotta hold is the pressure of your radiator cap. Maybe 15 psi?? Not sure about what your pressure cap is rated at??

 

[arkydog]

research cummins diesel 57 block crack in water jacket. there is a fix of inserting some kind of metal pin to fill the hole. the crack is fixed by drilling a series of holes in the crack for permanent repair. its on a dodge cummins 5.9 diesel block i think from around 93'-97'. they identify the cummins blocks that cracked by the number 57 cast in the side of the block. maybe this could be a solution for your fix. i know you don't have a crack, just a hole, but its a thought.

 

[rbargeron]

From the good points and observations given so far, it appears the hole is low enough to be below at least the top piston ring at BDC. It might be below the lowest ring too - which would mean a well-adhered soft patch might fix it. If the hole is above the rings compression pressure would show in the cooling system.

The drill point may have made only a small break-thru hole. Could use a needle to carefully explore. The piston skirt extends down far enough below the lowest ring so might always block a feeler in the hole regardless of engine position.

On the assumption that the hole is located near (or very near) the rings at BDC, I would NOT try to further drill or tap for a threaded plug. I'd do nothing that removes any more material.

There is no combustion pressure below the rings so there's only coolant pressure and it's in the right direction, especially if the hole is not full diameter all the way thru.

I think I'd try cleaning the area and pushing in a dab of RTV. It's a benign material that never gets hard enough to hurt anything if it comes loose, and more importantly can't damage the rings or the piston.

We're all wishing you the best in this situation - and many of us have BTDT if not precisely the same. (Some of us have done things even more spectacular) Try the easy stuff first before diving deep. Take care and go easy on yourself. Dick B

P.S. Another possibility would be to put a rubber plug in the freeze plug hole and hammer it back in so the plug seals off the drilled holes. There's plenty of flow area above and below it, and the block heater could go in a different plug hole.