Cutting up white oak tree

[MossRoad]

There's something going on there if the cuts are smoking that much. I cut black locust almost exclusively anymore, and it's a lot harder than white oak. It will throw sparks, but the cuts don't smoke. I've also cut some osage orange, which is almost exactly twice as hard as white oak and I've never seen the cuts start smoking.

 

[ponytug]

As was pointed out above, white oak does accumulate minerals under the right conditions, often a lot of it in the bark. I have used white oak in furniture and if one cuts too fast, it will easily gum/smoke, especially if the wood isn't fed straight or the blade is the tiniest bit dull.

I guess I am not convinced that there was anything wrong in the cutting, especially if the chips looked ok. The minerals in the bark alone could easily have friction heated the chain and have accounted for the sparks. That said, I might have double checked the chain for evidence of adequate oiling. I have had chains smoke on old, dry cherry, and that did cause me to disassemble everything to double check the oiling passages, but nope, just another hard, hard wood.

I dealt with a lot of white oak and some black locust as a kid, and if it is dry, white oak is hard, hard, hard. I would take black locust over white oak any day for cutting. But for both of them, I certainly would process the wood ASAP after felling. A couple of the old farm buildings were made with white oak, and you either pre-drilled a nail hole, or pounded in three nails part way and removed three bent nails to make a hole deep enough for the fourth. But I think that different woods are always interesting; we had a bunch of Dutch elm then for firewood; easy to cut, but miserable to split with all sorts of branched fibers.

All the best,

Peter

 

[ruffdog]

We cut dead hard oaks here and a good oiler makes a difference. I swapped my 460 oiler out for the PNW HO oiler and put the 460 one in the 361. That bumps the output up in case I'm in that dry hard oak.

 

[Randy Gann]

I am in agreement with Peter / Ponytug on this one. Guessing the tree has been dead and drying out for some time. The main trunk would be extremely hard when dry. Some of the old buildings here on the farm are built with white oak. You can’t drive a nail in it. It is tough to cut with a skill saw. I can imagine the problems cutting with a chainsaw.

 

[dodge man]

I’ve also cut up trees and gotten sparks. I’m almost positive there were no nails also.

 

[oosik]

Back when I burned firewood - 30+ years ago - I acquired some black locust. A small stand of trees adjacent to an old homestead site. It was VERY heavy, dense wood. Tough to cut and difficult to split. But when it was all done and racked up - made excellent firewood. Bank the wood stove with a couple chunks - it was still hot and glowing when I got up. This was seldom the case using my normal firewood - pine.

 

[Jstpssng]

I have no facts to back me up but I think that the oaks are notorius for drawing minerals from the ground and having it throughout the wood. I have heard a few loggers and sawyers around here mention trees that had a lot of mineral in them and the sawmills sometimes won't even take them. I have experienced some veins of mineral in some of the oak I have had sawn from my property here in years past. Some of it you can clearly see in the wood as striations of different colors, especially in white oak but have seen it in my red oak and post oaks too.

It's the same with red oak here, we have to call the buyer for the pulp mill first if we want to bring a load of mostly oak. I'm not sure if it picks dirt up from the ground or if wind kicks it up onto the bark and it's absorbed that way.

 

[coaster]

I've pretty much burned wood my whole life. I currently go through about 5 to 6 cord a year for heating. I typically have white oak, read oak, some gum, poplar, locust, etc. The ONLY time I see chains start to smoke is when they are flat out dull. Of course, we all know how fast a chain can go dull if you cut into the ground with it, but the wood itself can also be a bit dirty. Nothing you can do besides sharpening the chain and going at it again. I cut enough that I bought my own sharpener and always have several chains ready to go. There's no bigger waste of time than continuing to cut when the chain is dull.

 

[CobyRupert]

I've pretty much burned wood my whole life. I currently go through about 5 to 6 cord a year for heating. I typically have white oak, read oak, some gum, poplar, locust, etc. The ONLY time I see chains start to smoke is when they are flat out dull. Of course, we all know how fast a chain can go dull if you cut into the ground with it, but the wood itself can also be a bit dirty. Nothing you can do besides sharpening the chain and going at it again. I cut enough that I bought my own sharpener and always have several chains ready to go. There's no bigger waste of time than continuing to cut when the chain is dull.

Yes…but..
…don’t you see a difference in the saw dust / shavings that are coming off the chain when it gets dull? Powder vs matchsticks.
OP says the sawdust stayed the same.

I don’t see how it could stay the same and not be cutting. Or be cutting and heat to the point of setting log on fire.

People have been known to put the chain on backwards. I wonder…?

 

[Eagle1]

There's no bigger waste of time than continuing to cut when the chain is dull.

Ain't that the truth. When it quits cutting right and gets hot its time to switch saws and then sharpen or change the chain. Yet I still catch myself fight through a with dull chain when there is only a couple of cuts left.
I cut mostly fallen or standing dead oaks and some are chain killers. Not at all uncommon for them to smoke and throw sparks.

 

[Rockbadchild]

i’ve seen sparks conking off wood and chain contact many times especially in pine threes like white, red pine or jack pine. the ground has some things to do with it as well.

 

[Egon]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/41698529_Composition_distribution_and_supposed_origin_of_mineral_inclusions_in_sessile_oak_wood_-_Consequences_for_microdensitometrical_analysis

 

[Oaktree]

Back when I burned firewood - 30+ years ago - I acquired some black locust. A small stand of trees adjacent to an old homestead site. It was VERY heavy, dense wood. Tough to cut and difficult to split. But when it was all done and racked up - made excellent firewood. Bank the wood stove with a couple chunks - it was still hot and glowing when I got up. This was seldom the case using my normal firewood - pine.

I don't think we have locust around here, but pine is about as far as you can get from hardwood. The only thing I use pine (or any other evergreen) for is kindling, or maybe in my workshop to heat it up quickly. Then again, I'm in New England where there's plenty of hardwood, unlike the west coast.

 

[mjonesnh]

Ok, just to clarify. Chain not on backward, fresh sharpened, throwing big chunks of sawdust. Chain is Stihl 3/8 .050 non safety yellow chain. on 2 of the 4 big logs the bark and down into the first several growth rings was smoking and smoldering with a few sparks jumping. My brother poured a bottle of water on these. Believe it would have ignited without water On down into the cut, the face of the log was blackened with wisp of smoke for about 4-5 inches but water not needed there. I know some people have hard time believing this but this is the way it was. I had never seen or heard of it either till then.

 

[CobyRupert]

Ok, ok…sorry, I hope I didn’t insult you. One of those people who’s put a chain on backwards has been me! (luckily I’ve always discovered this before starting it up).
I’ve had my logging jobs go late in the day in the winter and seen sparks even come off of red pine, which I consider soft, when it was getting too dark. Though I suspect maybe it was from “micro-gravel” embedded in the bark.
..but I still wonder, if chain is cutting, and the chips are flying, where is the heat being generated?
At the tooth-wood interface, or at the bar-chain interface?

 

[mjonesnh]

Ok, ok…sorry, I hope I didn’t insult you. One of those people who’s put a chain on backwards has been me! (luckily I’ve always discovered this before starting it up).
I’ve had my logging jobs go late in the day in the winter and seen sparks even come off of red pine, which I consider soft, when it was getting too dark. Though I suspect maybe it was from “micro-gravel” embedded in the bark.
..but I still wonder, if chain is cutting, and the chips are flying, where is the heat being generated?
At the tooth-wood interface, or at the bar-chain interface?

No offense taken. Im afraid i am guilty of putting a chain on backwards a couple of time my self. Purchased a Stihl MS170 new from Stihl dealer and found chain on backwards when I got it home, so it happens to everybody if you fool with chainsaws enough. Believe friction was from tooth - wood interface. Wood just so dog gone hard saw was throwing lots of sparks when cutting through bark and down maybe 6 inches into the plunge. On toward middle of log, no sparks or smoke

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I've pretty much burned wood my whole life. I currently go through about 5 to 6 cord a year for heating. I typically have white oak, read oak, some gum, poplar, locust, etc. The ONLY time I see chains start to smoke is when they are flat out dull. Of course, we all know how fast a chain can go dull if you cut into the ground with it, but the wood itself can also be a bit dirty. Nothing you can do besides sharpening the chain and going at it again. I cut enough that I bought my own sharpener and always have several chains ready to go. There's no bigger waste of time than continuing to cut when the chain is dull.

A logger explained to me how to cut wood in a deck, after it had been yarded and picked up dirt.

- Sharpen the tooth so it is more perpendicular to the bar. Don't completely eliminate a point, but don't make the point do the whole lead.

- File down the rakers so the tooth takes a deeper cut. Chains today are designed for a shallow cut so people don't get a chainsaw gash in their forehead from a kickback. Be sure to wear a hard hat with lexan face shield if you do this. It's even more dangerous than a chainsaw in its native state.

- Use a 12 volt die grinder chain sharpener, and be ready to sharpen your chain any time it gets dull. Cutting with a dull chain is a loser. Be ready to replace the chain when it gets too ground down.

It's why I don't like cutting firewood in a deck. I cut it where it falls. The work goes faster and the chain lasts longer.

 

[coaster]

Yes…but..
…don’t you see a difference in the saw dust / shavings that are coming off the chain when it gets dull? Powder vs matchsticks.
OP says the sawdust stayed the same.

I don’t see how it could stay the same and not be cutting. Or be cutting and heat to the point of setting log on fire.

People have been known to put the chain on backwards. I wonder…?

Oh, you definitely see a difference in the saw dust. When the teeth go dull, it becomes powder. Moreover, you hear the engine constantly going at full RPM versus digging into the wood. The chains just basically grazing the wood. This is just putting extra wear on your saw, making you tired and heating up your saw. None of those are GOOD things

I think all of us have made the mistake of putting on a chain on backwards. It really only needs to happen to you once. Once it does, you always think about it when putting a chain on cause no one wants to waste the time of having to do it again, right?

 

[coaster]

Ain't that the truth. When it quits cutting right and gets hot its time to switch saws and then sharpen or change the chain. Yet I still catch myself fight through a with dull chain when there is only a couple of cuts left.
I cut mostly fallen or standing dead oaks and some are chain killers. Not at all uncommon for them to smoke and throw sparks.

Yep, I'm sure we're all guilty of pressing on when there are just a couple cuts left. For me, it depends on just how dull that puppy is. If it's basically just grazing the wood (producing very fine dust), I'll still cut my loss and change the chain. If it's somewhere in the middle, I might press on. But if I know I have a LOT to cut still, I'll stop and make the change.

Just yesterday, I had an old neighbor give me a call after the storm that whipped through here. A huge white oak had fallen across their driveway and they were concerned with being able to get out in an emergency. I set to work cutting it up for them knowing that a 2nd storm was coming through. The chain was decent, but not perfect - knew that when I started, but wanted to get a jump on the 2nd storm. I was almost done when I knew the chain was almost done as well. I did press on and got 'er done, but if the 2nd storm wasn't upon me, I'd have stopped and changed the chain.

 

[coaster]

A logger explained to me how to cut wood in a deck, after it had been yarded and picked up dirt.

- Sharpen the tooth so it is more perpendicular to the bar. Don't completely eliminate a point, but don't make the point do the whole lead.

- File down the rakers so the tooth takes a deeper cut. Chains today are designed for a shallow cut so people don't get a chainsaw gash in their forehead from a kickback. Be sure to wear a hard hat with lexan face shield if you do this. It's even more dangerous than a chainsaw in its native state.

- Use a 12 volt die grinder chain sharpener, and be ready to sharpen your chain any time it gets dull. Cutting with a dull chain is a loser. Be ready to replace the chain when it gets too ground down.

It's why I don't like cutting firewood in a deck. I cut it where it falls. The work goes faster and the chain lasts longer.

I've never heard that before - interesting. I'll tell you, for us that cut a lot, there's nothing like a brand new chain, eh? I really don't know about today's chains being designed to make shallow cuts. All I can say is that when I put on a completely brand new chain, it produces nice thick saw dust (hate to even call it dust) to the point that it will sting your leg if you're not wearing chaps It's the difference between cutting on a log for an hour (and wearing yourself and the saw out) or being done in 15 minutes. That lesson comes with experience.

For kickback, at least today's saws do a very good job of protecting us against that.