CUT vs PT

IrTxRx · Apr 26, 2004

OK gang,
this is a theoretical question because I have sworn not to purchase anything for the next 12 months. BUT, if you were going to go out and sign on the dotted line soon. Which would you prefer. I can get a Century 43HP package for $16.3K (see link, they will give me $1K credit for the trailer I don't need but they will NOT go lower)

http://www.riverasmachinery.com/century_3040_tractor_package_page.html

Now, comparing loader lift capacity, it appears the the PT 1445 is the comparable machine. A package cost to me would be as follows:
PT 1445 tractor - $17,000
rough-cut mower - $2,500 (??? non-listed on price sheet)
Grapple bucket - $1,800
S & H - $1,000 (I'm only guessing, too low?)
GRAND TOTAL - $22,300

Comparing the 43HP century, maybe the PT 1430 is actually a more comparable tractor in the work that it can do. A package price is as follows:

PT 1430 tractor - $14,000
Rough-cut mower $1,100
Grapple bucket - $1,500
S & H - $1,000
GRAND TOTAL - $17,600

I now the CUT implements are all medium-duty, but they are included in the price and I could sell/trade in the future and I do like the dealer. But, I appreciate the design of the non-traditional PT tractor.

Questions:
1) which PT model is most similar in capabilities to the 43HP Century (which BTW is a very nice tractor with 12f/12r shuttle shift, no HST)?

2) will the 1430 do MOST things the 1445 will do, just take a little longer?

3) Could I finish mow with the 1445, or is it really to big (would it tear up a yard, too big to turn even for an articulated machine???)

4) Oh yeah /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif! Which package would you prefer for 35 acres with mainly mowing, loader work, and brush clearing (no Ag dirt work). Price is ALWAYS a concern, but for this type of purchase, I would probably just finance it longer to make it fit my finances (I plan on using this purchase for a long, long time)

As always, thanks for you input/advice/experience.

Bob_Skurka · Apr 26, 2004

I think you might find that a 43hp Century is too big to mow a yard with! Field mowing - no problem.

As for turning an articulated tractor versus turning the Century, I think you will find the PT, even a big one, will get you into places the Century won't go.

As for loader work, please realize that you cannot compare an articulated loader to a tractor in terms of productivity. The articulated loader will do at least 50% more work in the same amount of time. I admit to never having used a PT as a loader, but I have used articulated loaders and regular loaders and tractors with loaders. A tractor with a loader is fun, but it is slow and cumbersome and many people like me have them and love them, but they are no where near as productive as an articulated loader. At best, a tractor with a loader is a compramise that gets the job done faster than you would if you used a shovel and a wheelbarrow.

I certainly can't speak to the specifics of the units you are considering, and I don't know if the Century is the better tractor for you, but I doubt that you could compare productivity on the loader issues between the PT and Centruy without taking the 2 rear wheels off the PT and maybe even draining the gas tank.

IrTxRx · Apr 26, 2004

I agree, using a 43HP century probaly would make my yard look like a furrowed field. I don't have a lot of nooks and crannies to mow around, just your usual flower beds and ornalmentals. If the 1445 could mow my yard also, this is a clear advantage compared to a 43 Hp CUT. If it couldn't finish mow either, it is kind of a wash /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif between 43HP CUT and 1445 PT in the yard department.

Thanks

SnowRidge · Apr 26, 2004

( 4) Oh yeah ! Which package would you prefer for 35 acres with mainly mowing, loader work, and brush clearing (no Ag dirt work). Price is ALWAYS a concern, but for this type of purchase, I would probably just finance it longer to make it fit my finances (I plan on using this purchase for a long, long time) )

Both! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

If not, the CUT, but with R4 industrial tires. With that much land, there is just too much likelihood that you will regret not having the ability to use standard tractor 3-point hitch ground engaging implements.

Take the savings and buy a commercial ZTR for your lawn, or do as we did--buy a PT-425 for non-field mowing.

SnowRidge

davesisk · Apr 26, 2004

He he...I love it. Ask us "which tractor should I get?" and you'll always get at least one answer that says "Get both!". Just goes to show there no such thing as too many tractors... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I agree, btw...get the big honkin' CUT for mowing the fields (assuming you don't have any unusual slopes) and get a PT-425 or so for mowing the yard and other work that benefits from the PT's versatility!

Dave

MossRoad · Apr 26, 2004

Heck, I'd get a big honkin' PT to mow the fields. Or, I'd just get two wing mowers for the little PT.
/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

IrTxRx · Apr 27, 2004

You know, both isn't such a bad idea. The cost of a smaller* PT for landscape and brush management and a simple tractor for mowing and raod maintenance would probably be the same as the cost of a 1445. Bonus I would have a backup tractor while the other was in the shop. Detractor, I would have two machines to maintain (I am an MCI, Mechanically Challenged Individual).

Some of the areas i would need to rough cut are pretty steep (10 acres sloping down to creek with ravines to go around/through). I thought this area might be one were a PT tractor would excell over a conventional CUT.

Question # umpteen - How bad is rough cutting in a FEM (front end mower) and does one need a special gaurd to prevent sticks, rocks and such from decapitating the operator?

Question # umpteen&two - It was discussed very briefly before, how well can road maintainance be done with the PT "pushed" blade, or does one really need a "pulled" box blade to do a good job of crowning and smoothing? pt could either be a BIG + or - depending on the answer (i.e. it seems like it would be really hard to go backwards the whole way down a 1000' drive "pulling" a box blade). If there is a longer thread already discussing this that I missed, sory in advance.

Once again, your feedback is invaluable.

*I am not saying PT 180, 422, 425's are diminutive machines, just that 1430/1445 are "more bigger" /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Schultz · Apr 27, 2004

I'm Surprised Charlie hasn't chimed in yet, he has answered similar questions before. He too has similar needs and uses. He has a few tractors, one is a 35-40hp John Deere and another is a PT1845. He's mentioned he hardly uses the JD anymore, it's for the others so they don't use his PT baby.

Hopefully Charlie will tell the rest of the story.

SnowRidge · Apr 27, 2004

( some of the areas i would need to rough cut are pretty steep (10 acres sloping down to creek with ravines to go around/through). I thought this area might be one were a PT tractor would excell over a conventional CUT. )

We mow tree plantations that we established in what used to be pasture. The one I just planted is pretty rutted, and the PT mower's rough terrain capabilities are barely adequate. I should point out that we use a finish mower for what is really a field mower's job, but PT uses the same hook up and wheel arrangements on both (Moss Road will correct me if I'm wrong on this). Note too, that I am referring here strictly to the physical limitations imposed by the mower's relatively small wheels, its four wheel stance, and relatively unrestricted articulation. There is no problem whatsoever with its cutting ability.

Before these areas were planted with trees, I mowed them with a 72" rotary mower behind the CUT. Its much larger single tail wheel rode over these ruts as if they weren't there. In other areas, its pivoting top link pulls tight whenever I cross a ditch, which prevents the mower from dropping into it.

I suspect that I would have to turn off and raise the mower on the PT if I were trying to cut in the ditched areas on my property with it. Either that, or I might be able to back across them.

This will be the last year we plant in unimproved pasture. It makes it too difficult to cut with the PT. On the other hand, if Moss Road had not spent our money on the PT, we would have purchased a commerical ZTR, and I think we would be having an even harder time mowing. In any event, this fall I will probably plow and certainly disc the next planting area first. It will take the CUT to do that (and more implements). /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

( Question # umpteen - How bad is rough cutting in a FEM (front end mower) and does one need a special gaurd to prevent sticks, rocks and such from decapitating the operator? )

Single (pivoting) blade rotary mowers are extremely dangerous. The larger they are, the more dangerous they are. My neighbor's MF with a six foot cutter recently took out the rear window of his buddy's pickup with a large rock--just after his buddy got out of it.

To handle dense brush or saplings, a CUT's rotary mower is normally raised, and the mower is backed into the area to be cut. This places the bulk of the mower's deck between the area to cut and the relatively high sitting operator.

I would not be comfortable with a PT's mower operating raised up. It would be too high relative to me, and its freedom to pivot sideways wouldn't give me the warm and fuzzies in that situation.

( Question # umpteen&two - It was discussed very briefly before, how well can road maintainance be done with the PT "pushed" blade, or does one really need a "pulled" box blade to do a good job of crowning and smoothing? pt could either be a BIG + or - depending on the answer (i.e. it seems like it would be really hard to go backwards the whole way down a 1000' drive "pulling" a box blade). )

It shouldn't be much different than with a CUT. With the blade behind you, you have to look back to see what it is doing as you drive forward--at least some of the time.

I don't have a blade for my PT, but I do use a box blade with the CUT. Some CUTs have draft control which is said to be a great asset in leveling an area. I have it, but have never needed to use it.

Most CUTs do have position control which PTs don't have. Position control keeps an implement at a set height following the movement of its graduated control lever. It's a great asset.

Even though I don't have a blade for the PT, I've done a little bit of gravel smoothing using the lip of the light materials bucklet. It works, but the box blade on the CUT is a lot easier and more accurate.

Keep in mind that CUTs have a way of adjusting the side-to-side tilt of their three point implements (with power, if you pony up enough green). That's an important feature, and I'm not sure if PT implements have that ability. How about it Moss?

SnowRidge

Charlie_Iliff · Apr 27, 2004

Some of the areas i would need to rough cut are pretty steep (10 acres sloping down to creek with ravines to go around/through). I thought this area might be one were a PT tractor would excell over a conventional CUT.

Question # umpteen - How bad is rough cutting in a FEM (front end mower) and does one need a special gaurd to prevent sticks, rocks and such from decapitating the operator 
As Schultz noted, I do a lot of mowing, some in steep areas, with my 1845. Most times now, I tow an Acrease rough cut wing mower, supplementing the PT 6 foot rough cut mower so my total cut width is effectively about 10 feet. The front mower in dry conditions puts out some dust, so I wear a mask, but I've never had any projectile from the mower come near me. It is rear discharge, and does not seem to throw sticks or rocks. It has three spindles, with hinged blades like a big brush hog, and with stump jumper hubs.
Although others still cut pastures on our place with the John Deere CUT and a 72" brush hog, I won't unless the PT breaks, which it hasn't done yet. Even with single turf tires, it handles hills far better than the CUT. I've never ridden a sliding Power Trac more than a few feet before it regained traction. On the same terrain, I've ridden a sliding CUT all the way to more level ground, even with new loaded tires. (It is a 2-wheel drive tractor, and 4wd would certainly be better.)
I can't help with the grading question. I'm no good at it.