CUT or Utility

js5020 · Feb 26, 2005

Well the 5020 is getting old, have had it for 20 years and I'm thinking about updating. In my search I am finding CUT prices to be as much or more than a utility tractor. If I go with a CUT it will be larger than the 5020 anyways. I guess what I'm asking, has anyone gone the utility route and did you regret it?
Also without starting a circular debate on 2wd vs 4wd, is my thinking straight as to a 50 hp 2wd utility pulling as good or better than a 30 to 40 hp 4wd CUT, on solid ground of course?

GerardC · Feb 26, 2005

I would think that no matter what the 4WD would be much stronger. Gerard

KiotiJohn · Feb 26, 2005

I've heard it said that 4 WD adds about 20% to what the tractor can do, so a 30 would be equal to about a 36HP, a 40 about 48HP. As far as HP, that's probably about right, but 4WD will also help if you're using a loader as heavy loads often cause the front wheels on a 2WD to bog down, and they have no pulling power to help you out.
I don't think you'd get a whole lot more out of a 50HP 2WD than you would a 40HP 4WD. John

js5020 · Feb 26, 2005

Thanks for the response guys, I guess I'm just seeing the prices on these larger CUTs and having sticker shock. Just wondering if the best bang for the buck isn't in the larger machine even if it is 2wd. I was out on the green site and if I remember correctly I priced a 50hp 4wd for less than a 35hp CUT, I'll have to go back and double check to be totally sure. I don't think the difference was much a few hundred.

AndyMA · Feb 26, 2005

John, I have a 43hp Ford/New Holland 4wd 2120 large CUT and a 75hp New Holland 4wd Utility tractor. The TN can do much more work than the 2120. It may be only 20% more pull when you switch into 4wd, but it sure seems like more. Large bolders (3000 to 5000 pounds) that I can't even push in 2wd, move easily when I flip the 4wd button and lock up the front and rear axles. It would be a tough choice of whether to go 40 hp 4 wd or 50 hp 2wd. I think I would go 40 4wd, because there are just too many things that I can't do in 2wd. The added loader and drawbar capacity fo the Utility is very nice, so given a rear choice I'd go 4wd in a utility. 50 hp is too little for a utility size machine. I'd say a bare minimum I would be comfortable with is about 65. I used a TN55 and found it way underpowered. It also had a lighter front axle than its higher hp brothers. The TN is about 9000 pounds with bachhoe and out weighs the 2120 by over 3000 pounds. Again, just my experiences.

Andy

ThistleKop · Feb 26, 2005

JS,
If your tasks that would benefit from having hydro or shuttle shift are not that many, you might want to consider a "plain Jane" tractor in 4wd. JD 5103 and MF 451 would be a good place to start looking.

TK

grandad · Feb 26, 2005

Your profile says you have 4 acres. If that's the property you are working with, some people would say both a 40hp 4wd CUT and a 50hp 2wd utility are in the "overkill" category. Personally, I see nothing wrong with your preferences! But, maybe you could fill us in a bit on what your needs are. Lacking any of the details, all this 50hp vs 40hp and 2wd vs. 4wd discussion is mostly academic.

RoyJackson · Feb 26, 2005

For 4 acres, a 790 would do fine...still looking close to $15K for a new machine with a loader though. I paid $12500 for a year old 790 with loader. So, used might be the way to go... That leaves many options...670, 770, 755, 955 955...and those are just the Deere models. I'm discussing all '90's or newer machines.

I guess the obvious question is what do you want to do with the tractor. If just mowing, get a smaller machine. If other tasks, may size up a bit. My 790 is overkill for most tasks...but just right for my next implement...a chipper/shredder.

js5020 · Feb 26, 2005

Agreed, I don't think pulling wise 40hp 4wd vs 50hp 2wd there would be much difference, unless we were in the mud. I agree even 35hp sounds like more hp than I need. Presently I have 25hp and fwd, it's ok for mowing, but for other work snowplowing, box blading it's slow. Moving up to a larger CUT sounds great, I look at some prices, and compare them to the smaller utility tractors, not much difference in prices. Do I need 50hp no, I have nothing that would require that much hp, guess what I'm getting at is if a CUT is going to cost me as much or more than a utility tractor why not go for the utility tractor it's heavier, built for ag. Just looking to see if anyone has gone down this road and what positives and negatives they have found in the process.

frank_f15 · Feb 27, 2005

You still have not answered the 2 major questions asked. 1) is 4 acres the only acreage you will use the tractor on? 2) what actually are your tasks to do with the tractor?

js5020 · Feb 27, 2005

Yes my property size is 4ac, with the usual tasks, mostly mowing, snowplowing and box blading. With a new machine I will get a FEL. At this point in time I am doing alot of ground prep, the property was an old farm field and I can keep it cut but it's still a field. Once I have torn everything up and smoothed it out most of the work will be mowing and snow removal. I fully understand a 50 hp tractor is not necessary for this application. Here is my observation, l check some prices on the green site, a 4410 has a base price of 19749, a 4310 has a base price of 16669, a 5103 has a base price of 14691, and a 5103 has a base of 18305, in my odd thinking would it make sense the larger utility is the better value, it has more power, and weight, able to handle larger attachments?

KiotiJohn · Feb 27, 2005

( I fully understand a 50 hp tractor is not necessary for this application. Here is my observation, l check some prices on the green site, a 4410 has a base price of 19749, a 4310 has a base price of 16669, a 5103 has a base price of 14691, and a 5103 has a base of 18305, in my odd thinking would it make sense the larger utility is the better value, it has more power, and weight, able to handle larger attachments? )
I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to go with the larger tractor, 4 acres or not, as long as you can get it around the property and do what you want to do. You're exactly right that the larger tractor will carry larger implements, cutting down on the time it takes to do most of your tasks, unless you can't maneuver the property with the larger tractor. Who knows, you may end up with more property down the road and wish you had bought larger anyway. In the meantime, you'll have a great strong tractor and will have saved some money over a lesser one. John

grandad · Feb 27, 2005

When you are in the "site preparation stage", having a larger tractor really pays off in productivity. As you have observed, your 25hp CUT can only get so much done in a reasonable amount of time.

But there may come a time when the heavy work tapers off a bit, and lots of people find the smaller CUT's a better choice in those situations. They don't need big implements or a utility ag tractor to pull them. Shorter wheelbase, lighter weight and ease of operation become more important for those folks. It probably says something that so many buyers seem to go in that direction. Whether you will end up in that situation someday is something only you can decide.

Meanwhile, you're also correct that the utility tractor is probably going to give you more horsepower per dollar spent. Lots of people start out with a larger, used ag tractor for the heavy work, then sell it - often for what they paid for it - and get the smaller CUT for maintenance at a later date.

js5020 · Feb 27, 2005

I've been using the neighbors backhoe for loader work (case 530) and it's really not that bad to maneuver, it's not as nimble as the 5020 of course. I'm just looking at the prices and thinking I'm getting more for the same money, an example is the loader, the price is a little higher for the utility but I'm sure the capacity is a whole lot greater than a CUT. I just need to get some info on how narrow a utility will go, I'd like to stay under 7" implements if possible.

KiotiJohn · Feb 28, 2005

( I just need to get some info on how narrow a utility will go, I'd like to stay under 7" implements if possible. )
You can put just about any size implement you want on a utility tractor. There is no law that says a utility has to have the largest implements it will carry. I've seen posts here where large tractors were carrying a 5' implement!
A large tractor with a 7' or under implement would get a lot of work done in a short amount of time, and you'd still have the capability to go larger with the implements if needed. I say go for it, save some bucks and have all the power you need. After all, what we're talking about is buying larger for less money than you would need to spend for what you need anyway, except that larger implements will cost a little more. John

Kyle_in_Tex · Feb 28, 2005

The price of 4WD is usually at least a few thousand dollars or more. I would worry about a 2WD for snow plowing but I'll let the northern folks chime in about this.

I will say that very few times in the last rainy 6 months have I not had to put the tractor in 4WD. Furthermore, 4WD helps even big utility tractors work a front end loader. I think it is the best option on my tractor.

js5020 · Feb 28, 2005

Well I would like to cover the tire track when mowing. I checked some mower prices and a 7' isn't that much more than a 5'. As I said earlier the loader is only a few hundred more, I don't have any spec's but I'm sure it will lift alot more.
Small ground equip would be my concern I remember back the farmer I worked for had a 3 bottom plow on a 100 hp machine he drove it like a wild man just cause he could, ripped that plow all apart, it was total junk in very short time. Guess I'd just have to control myself when I had the 5' KK box blade on the back. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

js5020 · Feb 28, 2005

About 15 yrs ago I had a 45hp 4wd utility used to pull a 4-14 plow behind it, it was a brute. Unless I go used 4wd is 4000 + on the new ones and I'm not sure I want to spend for the little I would need it. A few of the neighbors plow with 2wd one has 50hp the other 100, they go where I would not try and neither of their machines have diff lock either.

Keith_B · Mar 1, 2005

( Yes my property size is 4ac, with the usual tasks, mostly mowing, snowplowing and box blading. With a new machine I will get a FEL. At this point in time I am doing alot of ground prep, the property was an old farm field and I can keep it cut but it's still a field. Once I have torn everything up and smoothed it out most of the work will be mowing and snow removal. I fully understand a 50 hp tractor is not necessary for this application. Here is my observation, l check some prices on the green site, a 4410 has a base price of 19749, a 4310 has a base price of 16669, a 5103 has a base price of 14691, and a 5103 has a base of 18305, in my odd thinking would it make sense the larger utility is the better value, it has more power, and weight, able to handle larger attachments? )

You can go with 40 hp models in non-green tractors and come out ahead on price. I priced a Mahindra 4110 w/loader for $18,600, a McCormick GX40 w/loader @$17,900 and a GX50 w/loader @ $19,000, Montana LG 4540 w/loader is around $18,600 and the Kioti DK45 w/loader runs around $19,500.

The Branson/Century lineup should be in the same price range.

In the John Deere models I priced a 990 for around $19,900 w/loader.

Most of these tractors have shuttle shift trannies, with the exception of the JD 990, which is a 9X3.
FWIW, I noticed that most of the tractors that aren't part of the big three lineup tend to be heavier than the JD, NH and Kubota lineup.

The prices I was quoted for the 5103 and 5203 w/loader were $17,912 for the 5103 and $19,500 for the 5203.

As you can see, there isn't a lot of difference in price between the value priced John Deere's and the full featured competition in the CUT and small utility sizes.

js5020 · Mar 1, 2005

Actually I was just using JD as an example because they have pricing on their site. I didn't want to spend the extra money on a JD 20 years ago and probably won't this time either. I did price Kubota this fall the dealer quoted me 17500 for a 2910 or a 3130gst both with loader, both were nice machines but I wouldn't consider the 2910, it doesn't weigh any more than what I have, and I'm not interested in a hydro. Also priced a Century but that guy was dreamin his prices were about list for a JD. Guess I'm just gonna have to think about this some more and keep shopping.