Cub Cadet 5000 series subcompact tractors

Bob_Skurka · Apr 13, 2004

(

we are getting way off topic here. When I said I am not an expert, I was mearly stating that I am not a "know it all". This industry is very complex and when you start really digging into these kind of questions its impossible to know everything. There are dozens of manufacturers, modems and designs. It would be a full time job to stay on top of it all. I do consider myself an expert in the products that I sell, and your right, as a customer you should expect that.

One frustration that I have had with this forum is that everytime someone critisizes somthing people jump all over that person. Why can't people accept that there are good and bad aspects about every product? Isn't that why we come here? )

Neil, I have defended you in the past and probably will in the future and was not trying to criticize you in any way, but I was trying to reinforce the point about some sales people as well as back up the validity of Ducatti's view (or at least some of it).

But the last point you just made is also a very frustrating point . . . the one about people accepting that there are both good and bad aspects about every product. In a different thread I have been searching for the best garden tractor and I layed out a series of qualifications. I also asked similar questions on another forum. What I have found is that some people are OBJECTIVE and others are EVANGALISTS who push their brand regardless of whether it is the right product for the task. But I admit to liking reading the thoughts of BOTH types of people anyway.

ducati996 · Apr 13, 2004

(
As for a salesman giving me the straight poop on whether a product stinks or not, I would rather the salesman tell me what he prefers. )

I would call you an easy sell and easily swayed...you should form your own opinions and not be steered by a salesman...
Who cares what the salesperson prefers, is he buying it?

Its up to Neil how he wants to run things. I just see it as odd and said so...I'm not trying to run him out of dodge...
And I like Cub products including the entire Cub line...if they sucked like you say, they would have closed shopped long ago... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Duc

AndyM · Apr 13, 2004

As for a salesman giving me the straight poop on whether a product stinks or not, I would rather the salesman tell me what he prefers. 

Not to steer the subject a different direction, and I hope Neil doesn't see this as a personal attack, but merely an observation--
When someone mentions something about looking at New Holland tractors in a thread, why is he critical of them, while recommending Kubotas? I would think if he sells both lines, they are both equally competent products. If Kubota was superior in Neil's opinion, why bother selling New Hollands?

That reminds me of a Chrysler/Plymouth and Oldsmobile dealership I knew of that would show you Chryslers when you went there to look at Oldsmobiles. If they don't like the Oldsmobiles that they sell, why do they bother carrying them? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Tractors4u · Apr 13, 2004

( I would call you an easy sell and easily swayed)

No, but if they have some insight by being more knowledgeable about the product, I want to hear it.

( if they sucked like you say )

Would you please point out where I say they suck?

I don't believe I said that. I believe I said that I would not want a true tractor built by MTD.

ducati996 · Apr 13, 2004

( ( I would call you an easy sell and easily swayed)

No, but if they have some insight by being more knowledgeable about the product, I want to hear it.

( if they sucked like you say )

Would you please point out where I say they suck?

I don't believe I said that. I believe I said that I would not want a true tractor built by MTD. )

=======================================

You said it in a more gentle less subtle way, unlike me who used the word "sucked" /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
All the products except the 7500- 8000 series is built by MTD...
There are really good models in this list under the MTD name...

Duc

Tractors4u · Apr 13, 2004

( There are really good models in this list under the MTD name...)

I agree that MTD makes some fine mowers for the Cub line. The problem is with MTD perception. People percieve MTD as a department store line of lawn tractors like a Murray and not a tractor line like Deere, Kubota and such. Regardless of how well they are built, I would rather have Mitsubishi or Kukje building the CUTs than MTD who has no experience in building true tractors. That was my point, not to run down MTD.

TBrown · Apr 13, 2004

Niel is not the only dealer who feels the way he does about the new Cub compacts. When I was tractor shopping, I visited a dealer who sells Kubota, Case, and Cub Cadet (he also happens to post here on TBN from time to time). The sales person I talked to essentially said the very same thing, they would not be handling the 5000 series Cubs, for the same reasons Niel gave. A company who manufactures a superior line of lawn & garden equipment doesn't necesarily know how to manufacture a superior compact tractor; I'd point out the recent discussions regarding Simplicity's new Legacy XL as an example.

I appreciated the dealer's honesty. He could have simply blown sunshine up my *** and told me whatever it would haven take to make a sale. How may times on TBN does a newbie post up and say "my dealer told me that these new wang fangs are built by kubota" or "the guy on ebay says I can take this Hinomoto to any Massey dealer for service" or something equally ridiculous ? A whole slew of people respond and tell him to walk away from that dealer and never look back, to find someone honest. Well, seems Messick is giving a pragmatic assessment of a tractor he's had a close look at, and hopefully giving Arthurb some useful information, or food for thought anyways.

I'm fairly certain that's what people are looking for when they ask a question on this board.

MessickFarmEqu · Apr 13, 2004

Thanks for clarifying that your not attacking. I can see why you would think that.

(Quick background, I sell NH, Kubota and Cub and seem to have a preference). While both are simular tractors, they are at the same time very different tractors. Each can be better for a different customer depending on your needs and what you value in a tractor. Thats kinda what I was trying to drive home about this Cub 5000 thing. In our market, it does not make much sense... but for someone else it may. Price wise NH/Kubota are usualy comprable, although in some instances Kubota costs me less money for a very simular tractor (TZ vs BX). I make basicly the same margin no matter what tractor we sell so thats not the issue.

Another reason why its a good idea for all dealers to carry multiple brands is supply and demand. If you a New Holland dealer, you have not had a good sub compact tractor to sell until recently. The TZ's just where delivered, 4 months behind schedule. Now since we have Kubota I have a very good tractor to offer my customers in its place.

From a dealership perspective, I would much rather deal with Kubota than New Holland. I do have a bias there and I don't hide it. NH has some issues to work out internaly, but that has nothing to do with their product. If I have any bias towards one or the other thats it. I appologize if you came away with a different impression.

Now what any of this has to do with the Cub 5000 series is beyond me /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ? AndyM - Thanks for posting in a constructive way. I didn't mean to leave you with that impression. Its all good.

AndyM · Apr 13, 2004

From a dealership perspective, I would much rather deal with Kubota than New Holland. I do have a bias there and I don't hide it. 

That is the impression I was getting. It seemed like if someone is interested in Cub Cadet or New Holland, you try to show them that Kubota is the way to go...

Sorry, I was only curious about that, and I was trying to say it in a way that didn't sound hateful or like I was attacking you.

When my dad was working for Ford Motor Company, they were turning out some of the worst junk they had ever made at one point in the 1970's. He was still loyal to them and we rode around in a bright yellow Pinto when we were growing up. I don't know too much about how a dealership operates, and I was thinking if you sold all three brands that you would have a equally loyal and favorable view of all three. I figured if you didn't care for one or the other too much, you wouldn't bother carrying them in the first place, but maybe I'm wrong on how that works. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

SteveM · Apr 13, 2004

Tractor dealers are different than car dealers, for sure - lots and lots of product lines, no loyalty agreements for the most part. Many dealers carry a line just because a certain product is really hot - they might grudgingly carry the rest. this is true of the aforementioned NY dealer (to my observation) they carry Cub only to have the lower end lawn and garden stuff, and let kubota carry the compact line. Interesting, same dealer carries Simplicity mostly to have the excellent Ferris ZTR commercial mowers....so they have mucho internal competition for the sub-compact slot, and kubota wins. Seems they have one token Cub 5000 and Legacy XL on the lot. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

MessickFarmEqu · Apr 13, 2004

Your headed down the right track. By carrying multiple brands you can offer the best of every product line. There are things that each and every company that we carry does better than the others. By making those choices available to your customer you server them better in the end.

 From a dealership perspective, I would much rather deal with Kubota than New Holland. I do have a bias there and I don't hide it.. Just making sure your not taking that out of context. I ment that Kubota is a much better managed company. New Hollands offices are about a 30 minutes drive from me. Around here, we are all intune to the corporate problems that they have and those things do trickle down. Kubota does not have the same managment issues that NH does. MTD is pretty removed from their dealerships. We don't have nearly the contact with them that we do with others.

That quote was not some kinda admission that I felt a preference for one product over the other. Out of context it does sound like it.

Its been a slow day around here... can ya tell

AndyM · Apr 13, 2004

Its been a slow day around here... can ya tell

It is here too... I had plans for yard work today! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

I assume that no one comes out and looks at new tractors in the pouring down rain! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Sunshine is coming by Thursday or Friday!

P.S. I like the fact that a couple of dealers read what we have to say. It keeps them in tune with what we're thinking but won't say to the dealer in person...

arthurb · Apr 13, 2004

I just wanted to know if a 2WD rear locking differential would work good in the snow with weight and chains. Without much limitations. I talked to one of my local Cub Cadet dealers today. He sells Kubotas, Case I-H, Wheelhorse, Cub Cadet and the rest of the MTD line of lawn tractors. He told me that the model 5252 that I was referring to would have some limitations depending on the snow/ice conditions.

Also, he said that the 5000 series of subcompact tractors are made by multiple manufacturers. About 3-4 different tractor companies make components for this 5000 series tractors. He said that he would sell me a model 5252 if I wanted to buy one. But, he would try to sell me a Kubota hands down first before this Model 5252 Cub Cadet.

This dealer seemed wary of the different companies involved with making all the components for Cub Cadet. He seemed more reassured with Kubota's lone manufacturing, quality and dependability. In part, I found my answer to my question. Thank you all for your opinions and input.

ducati996 · Apr 13, 2004

arthurb,

Sorry that you had to hear some of this becuase the 5000 series is a good machine at a very competitive price...
I think dealers (or their uninformed sales people) sometimes do more harm than good, because the 5000 series is made by MTD (engines not included) and in the U.S...that was their marketing push & claim...

Whats the price of the 4wd version if you have this info?

Duc

arthurb · Apr 13, 2004

Duc,

About $1000-$1500 more with a 60"mmm. My main purpose is to mow 3 acres of grass on relatively flat ground. My second purpose is for snow removal on my 20'x80' gravel driveway.

arthurb,

fivestring · Apr 14, 2004

"You need to qualify that some." 

I've owned 3 pieces of MTD equipment.
All 3 had issues.
I personally will not knowingly buy any more pieces of MTD equipment.

dfeck · Apr 14, 2004

I agree with Gary! I once owned a Cub 3205 (MTD product) that was the biggest piece of junk for the money. I think I owned it for a year before I traded it for a Ferris zero turn. I would NEVER buy another Cub made by MTD again. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

ducati996 · Apr 14, 2004

( I agree with Gary! I once owned a Cub 3205 (MTD product) that was the biggest piece of junk for the money. I think I owned it for a year before I traded it for a Ferris zero turn. I would NEVER buy another Cub made by MTD again. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif )

Dfeck,

Ok then, you are entitled to your opinion but I have experience directly opposite of yours...In my opinion the 3204
is buy far the best in its class and price range...please read what I just mentioned carefully so it is clear, again I said in its class and price range...Try and find a garden tractor with hydrolics, weight and strength for the price....its not happening.
Its been a trouble free machine that is built to take abuse which i give it under normal conditions...cant complain about that

Duc

Pictures below...

Cub3204 & JD 4100

Cub 3204 Blowing snow