Criteria on Hydros

   / Criteria on Hydros #1  

marco88

New member
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
6
Hello everyone!

I am a German university student and have to develop a new concept for HST in compact tractors. To get started and establish specifications i really count on your help...

Please just answer me two questions:

1) What are your criteria for an ideal HST?

2) Would you really pay a premium price for higher performance,better ease of use or better reliability?


I would really appreciate to read many different comments

Thanks a lot

Marco
 
   / Criteria on Hydros
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Egon said:
Have you posted this same question a few years ago?:D
No definetly not, i am totaly new to this forum and topic!
 
   / Criteria on Hydros #4  
marco88 said:
Please just answer me two questions:

1) What are your criteria for an ideal HST?

2) Would you really pay a premium price for higher performance,better ease of use or better reliability?

Marco, I'll take a "stab" at your questions. I won't give detailed specifics, but just generalizations.

1) The ideal transmission would be a "dual-mode" transmission with the ability to go into HST mode or gear mode (GST) when desired. That way, when you needed the features that HST does best, you could switch. For plowing and doing a lot of constant speed work, you could switch to the GST mode.

2) To my knowledge, HST and GST transmissions are already very reliable. "Higher performance" is one of those things that really needs more definition. Do you mean stronger or more efficient or both? For me, ease of use is a big draw if you maintain the current levels of reliability and performance. For example, most HST transmissions have two or three operating ranges. If I had something like a shuttle shift or power shift between ranges where I could shift on-the-go, that would be a nice marketable feature in my opinion.
 
   / Criteria on Hydros #5  
Don't have an HST, but I have driven them. I don't like the need to run the engine at/near PTO speed to make the hydro work correctly. I'd prefer to see a larger pump that needs less RPMs for full capacity. Kinda like spooling a turbo up earlier and using a wastegate to dump the excess at higher rpms.
whodat
 
   / Criteria on Hydros #6  
Marco,

Read the specs on the Kubota '40 series tractors with the new HST. It is pretty dern close to perfect.

Mechanically, just about any transmission is reliable. The best place for improvement will come from power / load management with accurate predictive capability. As you power into a pile of dirt, you want maximum torque available so high rpm's and high torque multiplication are desired (Low Range). Variations in speed still done by the HST peddle. Backing away from the pile, less power is needed and higher speeds are desired. Rpm's drop and gear range would go up to medium-low. As you take the load to the new location the tractor would optimize the power and minimize the fuel use while matching your speed desired. Grear range may stay medium-low or go to medium or medium-high. When you slow to raise the FEL and dump the load, the tractor would drop to low gear range and up the rpms so you can quickly move the loader up and slowly / exactly positon the tractor. This will require more than the standard 2-3 ranges for the HST to operate in. Maybe 6 ranges or and IVT.

Dropping the empty bucket would trigger the tractor into a higher speed mode for the return trip with minimum power and maximum fuel economy.

All of this would be done seamlessly. The operator would only know that the tractor moves at the exact speed he wants it to and was at the exact rpm range to accomplish the desired task. Overall, this should result in longer service life of the equipment and 10-15% less fuel used. Sensors would tell the tractor what was needed. Such as wheel speed vs ground speed for each wheel (able to lock rear axle, front axle and go to 4wd as needed), Verticle vs horizontal load on the bucket, 3 axis accelerometers to determine jounce and adjust max speed, capacitance sensors on the controls to determine where operators hands are resting, etc.

Sorry if this is a bit disjointed, but it's pretty much off the cuff.

jb
 
   / Criteria on Hydros #7  
Ah - right. It was a Japanese Student that asked the same question.:D
 
   / Criteria on Hydros #8  
jinman said:
1) The ideal transmission would be a "dual-mode" transmission with the ability to go into HST mode or gear mode (GST) when desired. That way, when you needed the features that HST does best, you could switch. For plowing and doing a lot of constant speed work, you could switch to the GST mode.


I agree!:D
 
   / Criteria on Hydros #9  
john_bud said:
Read the specs on the Kubota '40 series tractors with the new HST. It is pretty dern close to perfect.

Well... I, for one, think that perfect would allow for a greater range of HP.
 
   / Criteria on Hydros
  • Thread Starter
#10  
Egon said:
Ah - right. It was a Japanese Student that asked the same question.:D

do you know if and how i could find that discussion in the archives?

But anyway...i think there are probably a lot new opnions to gather here and other which may be changed there minds...

some of you gave me very detailed suggestions for a perfect hydro and a whole cut-drive-management system...but so far i am still more interested in the point if there are really a lot people who would pay more money for this kind of advanced technology...or how often do you have to use your tractor that this kind of investement makes sense.

do you see other trade offs than...price vs. technology
...?

marco
 

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