CPR for the first time!

[RobertN]

I teach for cost of materials to youth organizations(primarily Boy Scouts). In the FD, I am a volunteer, so that is at no cost. For Scouts, it is part of a commitment I made at an adult leadership class.

Since I got involved with volunteer fire in '99, I've only seen a couple changes, at least at health care provider level; this new version is not used for EMS personnel.

It seems even CPR itself keeps changing as far as the procedures. Please don't take this the wrong way, but it seems at times that CPR classes are nothing more than a money making machine, particularly if you're required to keep yearly certification and don't get reimbursed for it.

To the OP, you got involved and tried to help. Not much more could be asked of you.

 

[dodge man]

Good job first one. I know you wish the man had made it, but you can feel that much better knowing you tried. As it sits, you aren't left wondering "what if I had helped".

 

[forgeblast]

For training I was told about cpr pro, online training.
Online CPR Certification & CPR Re-Certification | ProCPR.org
We had a friend who was a tester, once you were done you could be tested by her to see if you passed.

 

[Sigarms]

This made the local news.

AP News | JournalNow.com

This news report mentioned paramedics, but another news article I had read on the subject mentioned that multiple medical doctors were on site and tried to revive the runner as well. Guess if your heart was going to give out, if there was any chance of getting help, this guy had the chance that most others wouldn't as far as professional help, and he still didn't make it.

Guess my only point is that when your heart gives for whatever reason, it's not like you see on TV or the movies when someone performs CPR and the person always makes it.

 

[woodchuckie]

I had the privilege of using my never used cpr skills on a nine year old girl who had been under water not breathing for about one minute. She was blue with her eyes and mouth open. I'm not the excitable type and I knew she would be gone if I couldn't help. She responded slowly but surely and returned home after one night in the hospital. You talk about seeing in replay in your mind. All I could think about for weeks was what if I couldn't have helped. I know I didn't do it perfectly but apparently perfect isn't always required I hope I don't need to do it again but I surely won't hesitate to try. You did a great job and I'm sure the experience will help you. You'll never have to think, "What if I had tried"

 

[First one]

I had the privilege of using my never used cpr skills on a nine year old girl who had been under water not breathing for about one minute. She was blue with her eyes and mouth open. I'm not the excitable type and I knew she would be gone if I couldn't help. She responded slowly but surely and returned home after one night in the hospital. You talk about seeing in replay in your mind. All I could think about for weeks was what if I couldn't have helped. I know I didn't do it perfectly but apparently perfect isn't always required I hope I don't need to do it again but I surely won't hesitate to try. You did a great job and I'm sure the experience will help you. You'll never have to think, "What if I had tried"

God bless you for what you did saving her life!!! The feeling of pride in saving her is something you will always remember for the rest of your life. That girl and family will always remember and love you for what you did . You're a hero, whether you think so or not. You don't know how lucky you are that you don't have to see in your mind her not making it.Thank God!
I know I tried ,and would again without thinking twice , I wasn't thinking that when I started CPR that he was going to die , I thought that he'd come around or at least be ok when the Ambulance got there.
Reading all your reply's has helped alot, and I still go back and start reading from were I started this. I get it that is wasn't my felt that he didn't make it.... now. But I still see a man dying ,over and over while I'm working on him and I can't do a dame thing about it. (I don't know what I would have done if it had been a child that didn't make it). This has changed me and how I look at CPR , I know when we go though our class this year , I'll have alot more Q's to ask about what to do in the case of a baby or young child.

 

[MossRoad]

I was told this by the doctor who put it in me...that's been a bit over 3 years ago...things make have changed since then.
My heart attack was due to an arrhythmia (sp???) between the upper and lower chambers of the heart. The pacemaker is to keep the correct rhythm. I'm assuming the AED could work against the pacemaker in doing this.
But you bring up a very good point! My information and instructions may be out of date.

So call up the cardiologist and tell him the gear heads on the tractor board want to know how to hot wire you since you are a newer model with a computer. :thumbsup:

Seriously, though, bodies are like machines. Very very interesting to find out how they work. Always fascinating.

 

[MossRoad]

We were also taught that it is possible the victim may vomit during CPR...that's pretty yucky, but it washes out.

That's true. We lived on a lake. My mom made all of us take Red Cross swimming lessons. All of us became lifeguards at the beach on the lake, local swimming pools, etc...

The lake was an ox-bow lake about a mile long. The beach was at one end. A family came running up to the beach to report a relative was swimming about 1/3 of a mile away from the beach and went under. My sister took off running, ran 1/3 of a mile, dove in and found the guy tangled in weeds. She pulled him in, and another guard started CPR compressions while my sister did the breathing. The guy vomited in her mouth. She promptly vomited and passed out. Several other lifeguards had arrived by then and took over breathing. Unfortunately, the man died a few days later in the hospital. My sister felt pretty bad for the guy, but everyone assured her that she did all she could do. It was kind of amazing that they got a pulse back on him in the first place.

 

[dmccarty]

First One you did what you should have done. I have been taking CPR classes since 9th grade which was many decades ago. In a First Responder class almost two decades ago, the instructor who works at a trauma center and as the head of the county EMT/Paramedics, mentioned the low survival numbers when using CPR. It was the first time I had heard the survival rate and I was surprised at how low it was.

TV and movies show someone getting CPR and the person surviving but it is not reality. But even 5-6% is better than dead.

AEDs seem like a real life saver when available. One of my places of employment does not have them. I think this is because of money and liability issues. I have noticed that Disney World has AEDs all over the place. There is an AED near every bathroom in the parks and resorts.

The training works. Our old city house was small. There was basically one big, open room with the kitchen, living room and dining area. The dining area and living room was separated by our couch. One night I got up to do something with the TV while we were eating. Our child was in a high chair. I heard a noise and looked back to see the kid in the classic choking position with wide eyes and hands to the throat. Just as described in so many training classes. I hopped over the couch pulled our child out of the high chair, turned her face down on my arm and whacked her upper back as I had been trained.

Out popped the big chunk of food. :thumbsup:

It took you longer to read what I said than it did for me to do it. Our kid was fine, I put her back in the chair, and she kept on eating like nothing had happened. :laughing:

The wifey on the other hand aged 10 years and gained quite a few gray hairs.

Given the limited amount of time in CPR classes it is interesting how much of the training sticks with you.

You did what many people would not have done. You gave they guy a chance. Many people do not get a chance. I am sure the man's wife is very grateful for you help with CPR and driving her to the hospital.

Later,
Dan

 

[czechsonofagun]

Excellent job, First One! You did the right thing and he just didnt have it in him to come through - and I like what your wife said too, smart and true.

 

[MikeD74T]

I would like your thought on the new way of CPR with hands only? easier yes, but is it as good as the old way, with no breathing?
The last time we had our refresher class in CPR they had changed from the old way from 30 and 2 breaths to just 30 compressions and no breathing. After I had given him the first 30 I felt that I should have given him 2 breaths , but didn't because I was told that the new way was better. In the stress of it all I tried to stay with what was just taught to us.
I'm shocked at the different % that there is in the survival rate . You make me more convinced to try and get a AED at that store. I can't help now to think that if they had a AED there that the chance of that man surviving would have jumped up from 2-8% to 20-43% how sad that the "only if "could have made that much more of a chance he'd be here today.
I keep coming in after I work for awhile to read more ,you all have made this alot easier to try and cope with.
Thanks again for all.

First One, I commend your effort and can only offer as consolence the fact that you didn't create the situation. I first took a CPR course in 1970 & have been an EMT in an industrial setting since 1988. In the business it's said that CPR is only performed on the dead as a reminder that it's most often unsuccessful but is a last ditch effort. A defibrillator (automatic or manual) stops the heart that is in fibrillation (rapid, shallow, out of sync contractions) with the hope that after the shock the heart will restart with a more normal rythum, but it will not start a stopped heart. I've never had a patient that presented as you described that presented a shockable rythum. I doubt whether an AED would have made any difference in your situation. The success numbers 20-43% have a lot more to do with paramedic level drugs & immediate defibrillation than anything else. Defibrillation within 4 minutes is very quick, even in a hospital lobby. Though it sounds cold, many patients are "worked" more for the benefit of the living than the patient. Death is inevitable and I'm glad you care enough for someone else's life to intercede. MikeD74T

 

[atgreene]

Good for you for trying to help.:thumbsup:

As a local FF EMT and as a full time Ff EMT I've done cpr well over 50 times, probably much more than that. The success rate is very low, but it's the few that you save that makes it all worth it. Someone you know (just had one) and children will mess with your head for a while. Talk to others about it, preferably someone in the EMS field who understands what you're dealing with. Most people have no idea what it's like and will not be able to relate when you talk about it.

We often will use bystanders to help us when we arrive if it looks like they know what they are doing. Getting equipment out and set-up, stretchers in place, BVM's, AED's, IV's, drugs etc.... all out and working takes many hands. By doing cpr for them that frees them up to move onto advanced life support measures.

Some things are ment to be, some aren't. Everyone deserves a chance and you gave that guy the best opportunity he could possibly have in that situation.

 

[First one]

Thanks again for all your help, each and everyone of you .
There were alot of things I had no idea of when I started CPR on the guy. Every time I read about info. that I didn't know from you guys, it helps to remind me it wasn't my fault that I couldn't save him , and it might not have made a diff. if I did have a AED there.
I thought that a AED would jump start a heart that stopped and to get a rhythm back. I guess I had more against me then I thought.
No matter what , I'll never turn away from someone in need of help , more so now then ever.
It's helped to hear about what you all have gone though and the advice and support you've given to us in dealing with this.
You guys are the hero's in our eyes, thanks!!

 

[dmccarty]

Also remember that he was dead when you started to help.

YOUR efforts provided a chance to bring the man back to his family.

Without YOUR effort, there was no chance.

Some chance is better than NO chance.

Later,
Dan

 

[KubotainNH]

First one, great job for trying. In my eyes you were there for 3 reasons:
1)giving someone a chance to live
2)being there for the man's companion
3)praying for the man which may have helped him more than you'll ever know

Now I look back at the CPR cert on my office wall and see it's out of date, time to get re-certified. This brings up a 4th reason:
4)being an example to others to get CPR certified

 

[Iplayfarmer]

I'm coming late to the conversation. Enough has been said about survival rate and motivation, etc. It's been a few days, and you're adjusting well. You're probably ready to hear a few things I've learned in my 6 years as a volunteer EMT...

You didn't create the problem.
Remember it's not your emergency, it's the patient's.
You don't really save a life. You just prolong the inevitable.
If someone dies from electrical shock, Hazardous chemicals, or other on scene dangers, it shouldn't be you.
If a patient vomits, aim it at the bystanders who wouldn't back up.

I've seen some pretty rough stuff, and I've worked people that I know including kids. You have to be just a little crazy to really handle this kind of stuff. It's the sane normal people who have a hard time with it. We rely on each other a lot, and we rely on a lot of good humor.

My #1 rule... When talking with anyone on a scene, if it felt good saying it, it was the wrong thing to say.

For those of you who do this for a living you'll really appreciate this link... http://www.emtlife.com/archive/index.php/t-89.html That's where I got the stuff from above. I picked out the stuff that I've come to really appreciate personally.

 

[Nissan197]

Good job for stepping in. You will always remember the incident. The first time I gave CPR was in 1998 to a 36 year old with his teenage son standing next to him when he collapsed. I was giving compressions when he vomited all over my arm. He did not make it. Whenever I pass that house I still remember it, just like it was yesterday.

 

[Smallplot]

First one, I am sure the family that lost a loved one will remember you, a stranger, trying your best to help for a long time. Your act of kindness is one which a lot of people should learn from.

And from what you described, an AED would probably not been much help. Your quick actions were his best chance. I know from experience, it seems like you are giving CPR for ever before help arrives and the kind of thoughts which go through your mind. I think thoughts like them clear our minds of what our eyes are seeing so the brain can continue making our hands do what we were trained.

Sorry to hear about the loss of your son also. Keep in mind, God must have had a special reason to call both of them home.