CPR for the first time!

[RoyJackson]

As mentioned above, CPR does not have a really high success rate. It is worth it though, because even if only 6% are saved, that is significantly better than 0%.

The main thing is to keep the blood oxygenated and flowing to the brain...even if the first responder cannot revive the victim, there is a decent (more then 6%, I should think) chance a hospital can revive them.

BTW, I had a heart attack...however, this is First One's thread and I'll save that story for another thread.

 

[RobertN]

That is correct. That is also why the new compressions only CPR for Layperson is out. A whole lot of compressions can move some air, but it also keeps the blood flowing, even if O2 is minimal. Breathing for someone is hard, but compressions are not so much.

No, the numbers are low still.
Type of Care for SCA Victims after Collapse Chance of Survival
No care after collapse 0%
No CPR and delayed defibrillation (after 10 minutes) 0-2%
CPR from a non-medical person (such as a bystander or family member) begun within 2 minutes, but delayed defibrillation 2-8%
CPR and defibrillation within 8 minutes 20%
CPR and defibrillation within 4 minutes; paramedic help within 8 minutes 43%
Chain of Survival

Those are the general numbers quoted since I became an instructor.

The main thing is to keep the blood oxygenated and flowing to the brain...even if the first responder cannot revive the victim, there is a decent (more then 6%, I should think) chance a hospital can revive them.

BTW, I had a heart attack...however, this is First One's thread and I'll save that story for another thread.

 

[RobertN]

I just found out a long time friend, and EMT, had the same situation yesterday. She is taking it pretty hard. She started CPR, and FD arrived and worked on the person too, but the person did not make it.

 

[First one]

That is correct. That is also why the new compressions only CPR for Layperson is out. A whole lot of compressions can move some air, but it also keeps the blood flowing, even if O2 is minimal. Breathing for someone is hard, but compressions are not so much.

No, the numbers are low still.
Type of Care for SCA Victims after Collapse Chance of Survival
No care after collapse 0%
No CPR and delayed defibrillation (after 10 minutes) 0-2%
CPR from a non-medical person (such as a bystander or family member) begun within 2 minutes, but delayed defibrillation 2-8%
CPR and defibrillation within 8 minutes 20%
CPR and defibrillation within 4 minutes; paramedic help within 8 minutes 43%
Chain of Survival

Those are the general numbers quoted since I became an instructor.

I would like your thought on the new way of CPR with hands only? easier yes, but is it as good as the old way, with no breathing?
The last time we had our refresher class in CPR they had changed from the old way from 30 and 2 breaths to just 30 compressions and no breathing. After I had given him the first 30 I felt that I should have given him 2 breaths , but didn't because I was told that the new way was better. In the stress of it all I tried to stay with what was just taught to us.
I'm shocked at the different % that there is in the survival rate . You make me more convinced to try and get a AED at that store. I can't help now to think that if they had a AED there that the chance of that man surviving would have jumped up from 2-8% to 20-43% how sad that the "only if "could have made that much more of a chance he'd be here today.
I keep coming in after I work for awhile to read more ,you all have made this alot easier to try and cope with.
Thanks again for all.

 

[RobertN]

From what I have seen at Instructor recert training, and have browsed, for the general public, Hands Only seems to be working well.

Historically, people have had trouble rescue breathing properly. And, they took too long to switch between breathing, and compressions; the switch should be very short.

Hands Only works, because it keeps the blood flowing, even if poorly oxygenated. And, the compressions themselves will cause some air movement in the chest(and oxygen exchange).

The other thing it overcomes, is the yuck factor. With mouth to mouth breathing, will you catch something that victim has? Hands only takes away that worry.

For EMS, the original procedures are used.

Hands-only CPR gets better results - The Denver Post
Hands-only CPR enough to save a life, studies say - Health - Heart health - msnbc.com

I would like your thought on the new way of CPR with hands only? easier yes, but is it as good as the old way, with no breathing?

 

[Archer EV]

You did your best and that is all anyone can do. I used to be a CPR Instructor. I never used it on a person myself but I taught firemen who probably did. I taught bank employees and even taught a little girl who did use it to save her father's life. So I figure I had a part in saving some lives myself. It was fortunate that you were right there to give him a chance. He would have had zero chance otherwise. You just can not save everyone. Take pride in the fact that you were willing to get training and willing to use it when the time came.

 

[Western]

Just a couple AED mentions. Within the past 2 weeks near me.

A 15 yoa football player collapsed at a game in Azle TX about 2 weeks ago, coaches revived him with the use of AED's now required at football games here. Boy was on the news after hospital stay and looked good.

A 10 yoa girl collapsed after gym practice in Dallas TX last week, 2 coaches revived her using an AED, she was hospitalized and recieved a pacemaker, she looked good and cheerful after discharge.

Overall, I think AED's should be as widely dispersed as possible. Any edge someone can have to render aid is a good thing. When I was getting out of LE, we where getting them for certain patrol cars.

 

[RoyJackson]

Just remember, you DO NOT want to use an Automated External Defibrillator (AED) on a person with a pacemaker!

Just a couple AED mentions. Within the past 2 weeks near me.

A 15 yoa football player collapsed at a game in Azle TX about 2 weeks ago, coaches revived him with the use of AED's now required at football games here. Boy was on the news after hospital stay and looked good.

A 10 yoa girl collapsed after gym practice in Dallas TX last week, 2 coaches revived her using an AED, she was hospitalized and recieved a pacemaker, she looked good and cheerful after discharge.

Overall, I think AED's should be as widely dispersed as possible. Any edge someone can have to render aid is a good thing. When I was getting out of LE, we where getting them for certain patrol cars.

 

[Soundguy]

God bless you.

soundguy

 

[RoMad]

First, I am very sorry to hear of the loss of your son. As the Father of three I can't think of anything worse.

As far as your feelings after the CPR, I had a very similar experience a few years ago. I was on the way to work one morning and came upon a bad crash that had just happened. I was one of the first ones to get to the car of a lady in her early 60's. She had ended up in the back seat and was pretty broken up, and with no pulse. I climbed in the car and gave her CPR until the Paramedics arrived. They checked her and said she was beyond help.
I went on to work and boy was it a rough day. I could not get her out of my mind.
I called the EMT on duty where I work and told them what happened. They told me that I had done everything I could and that it was rare for CPR to work but always worth trying.
I still think about her sometimes when I pass where the wreck happened.

 

[MossRoad]

First one,

I commend you on your swift action. If anything, you gave the woman some reassurance that there is some humanity left in the world. Just think how she would have felt if you would have said "Sorry" and driven off.

It also reminds me that my and my coworkers' CPR certification has expired and I should get my employer to set up re-certification.

 

[RobertN]

Can you elaborate?

American Heart Assoc and Red Cross both allow for use of AED's with pacemakers. Both are specific though, that the AED pads are not placed directly over the pacemaker.

Just remember, you DO NOT want to use an Automated External Defibrillator (AED) on a person with a pacemaker!

 

[RoyJackson]

Can you elaborate?

American Heart Assoc and Red Cross both allow for use of AED's with pacemakers. Both are specific though, that the AED pads are not placed directly over the pacemaker.

I was told this by the doctor who put it in me...that's been a bit over 3 years ago...things make have changed since then.
My heart attack was due to an arrhythmia (sp???) between the upper and lower chambers of the heart. The pacemaker is to keep the correct rhythm. I'm assuming the AED could work against the pacemaker in doing this.
But you bring up a very good point! My information and instructions may be out of date.

 

[Sigarms]

I was told this by the doctor who put it in me...that's been a bit over 3 years ago...things make have changed since then.

It seems even CPR itself keeps changing as far as the procedures. Please don't take this the wrong way, but it seems at times that CPR classes are nothing more than a money making machine, particularly if you're required to keep yearly certification and don't get reimbursed for it.

To the OP, you got involved and tried to help. Not much more could be asked of you.

 

[RoyJackson]

It seems even CPR itself keeps changing as far as the procedures. Please don't take this the wrong way, but it seems at times that CPR classes are nothing more than a money making machine, particularly if you're required to keep yearly certification and don't get reimbursed for it.

The classes I've been to (at work) were given by both paid and volunteer EMTs, so I don't think money was the driving force behind them.
One thing I do think about the lack of success in civilians giving CPR is folks are afraid they'll hurt the victim. We were taught that's it's possible correct chest compressions make break an older persons ribs (and make sure you're two fingers above the sternum!).
We were also taught that it is possible the victim may vomit during CPR...that's pretty yucky, but it washes out.

 

[Sigarms]

The classes I've been to (at work) were given by both paid and volunteer EMTs, so I don't think money was the driving force behind them.
One thing I do think about the lack of success in civilians giving CPR is folks are afraid they'll hurt the victim. We were taught that's it's possible correct chest compressions make break an older persons ribs (and make sure you're two fingers above the sternum!).
We were also taught that it is possible the victim may vomit during CPR...that's pretty yucky, but it washes out.

You're lucky, usually I always had to pay for mine, and I'm required by the state to be certified. I'm not complaining, but for the cost of an open book exam, it is decent money to be made.

I was always under the impression that you run a good chance of breaking ribs no matter what the age of the victim was.

As someone else mentioned, about a 6% success rate without advanced medical treatment which I can believe.

 

[First one]

It seems even CPR itself keeps changing as far as the procedures. Please don't take this the wrong way, but it seems at times that CPR classes are nothing more than a money making machine, particularly if you're required to keep yearly certification and don't get reimbursed for it.

To the OP, you got involved and tried to help. Not much more could be asked of you.

I thank you for writing ,as I'd thank everyone if I could , you all have made me see this differently .

I thought the same thing about the classes before this, and asked why we had to go though this every year. But now I see why you have to, in the heat of stress and everyone panicking you have a hard time trying to think. you almost need to be able to just do it without thinking.
The change from the old way of doing CPR and new way Did make a differentiates in making it easier to keep me remembering just what to do . Even if you ask yourself over and over again after the fact. By staying up to date on these things either by classes or by looking it up on line, you can take some, not all of the don't on what to do.
Thanks for all your support to my family and myself!!

 

[Soundguy]

a commont from a couple posts above on AED / pace makers.

As I understand it, some new 'pace makers' already have a small version of a defib built in, or at least that's how it was explained about the one my granmother just got.

on the cpr issue, my wife's a teacher, and they have to take the classes. last few they now are doing it with no breathing.. just the chest compressions.. I guess the issues are that 1, the chest compressions are moving enough air to make a difference, and 2, less chances of disease.. etc.

I know some first responder training is still giving out the lil plastic mouth piece.. buddy of mine gets the first responder / civy police academy training every 2 ys. e tc.. so my info on that could be outdated by that much time.. etc.

soundguy

 

[RoyJackson]

As I understand it, some new 'pace makers' already have a small version of a defib built in, or at least that's how it was explained about the one my granmother just got.

soundguy

That's correct....mine doesn't, but some do...I was told by a guy who has that type pacemaker that it's a heck of a shock when it does defibrillate.

 

[Soundguy]

that's what my grandmother said. she for sure 'feels' it.

apparrently it safer than external defib. takes less power to kick the heart back to rythm, thus does less damage.

soundguy