Coyotes

[woodsinfall]

We are in the process of building a house in a wooded area. Apparently there are many coyotes in the vicinity; the farmer at the place next door says he's given up on keeping cats because they're just "coyote food." We have two shelties. We will have some kind of fenced-in area, and we don't plan to let them just run, but when we are outside they like to be outside. They generally stick around, but if they see a deer they are gone. There's the background, now here are my questions:

1) Would a coyote go after something the size of a Sheltie? Both dogs are around 30 pounds.

2) Could a coyote get into a fenced-in area? What kind of fence would be best?

3) Is this something we would even have to worry about during daylight hours?

Thanks in advance for any feedback you can provide!

 

[brewerbob]

Yep, they'll go after just about any size dog. Don't forget they hunt in packs. I don't know about fencing, but I've seen them hunting during the winter in the daylight. We have a lot of coyotes here as well as cougars. Our cats are never allowed outside, and our labrador retriever is in at night. People around here take a dim view of dogs chasing deer, so we keep a pretty close rein our ours.
Bob

 

[GlueGuy]

Woods,

(1) Probably. One of our neighbors has a Shepherd, and she is constantly being "drawn off" by the coyotes. Seems like they draw them away from the home in order to gang up on them. She hasn't gone too far too fall into the trap (yet), but who knows? Another neighbor has an older golden retriever and a young australian sheep dog. They're not fenced (do have an invisible fence), so the coyotes "could" get in, but I haven't heard of it happening (yet).

(2) Possibly, but why would they unless there was something real enticing? A dog wouldn't be too enticing, but chickens might be.

(3) Again, possibly. We see coyotes at all times of the day and night.

All that said, we haven't had any real problem with them. We love to hear their singing (usually at night). We don't have any pets that go outside though. They leave us alone (and we them).

The GlueGuy

 

[TWINKLE_TOES]

Woodsinfall,

<font color=blue>1) Would a coyote go after something the size of a Sheltie? Both dogs are around 30 pounds.</font color=blue>

Yep

<font color=blue>2) Could a coyote get into a fenced-in area? What kind of fence would be best?</font color=blue>

Yep, I don't know what might be best but, I use 4 Ft Hog wire with two strands of barbed wire on top (to catch limbs), total height ~5 ft They go around or under, maybe over? </font color=blue>

<font color=blue>3) Is this something we would even have to worry about during daylight hours?</font color=blue>

Yep, I see Coyotes anytime, hear them most ever night. There is a mother and two pups that are hanging around now. There is an abundance of rabbits this year and they look pretty well feed. Most years they look pretty scrubby.

Also a lot of folks will shoot a dear chasing dog.

Al

 

[woodsinfall]

Thanks to everyone for the info. You've left me with another question. How do you break a dog of chasing deer? They're just in it for the exercise. The one time I saw them get even half-way close to a deer that didn't seem inclined to run, they pulled up and then backed off. We are hoping that they will give it up once the novelty wears off. It's a real pain; they come back exhausted and full of burrs.

 

[looch]

The only method for "trash-breaking" I know of is with an electric collar. This method is used by Delmar Smith (actor from Gun Smoke and now dog training guru). When the dog chases the animal he receives a shock. Soon the dog will think the animal is after him.

 

[Phred]

Von,

I can see a small dog having a major problem.
However, I have a sixty pound lab (still growing since he is less than a year old).
I have a real hard time beliving that a coyote would mess with a dog this large..? How much does a coyote weight?

Fred

 

[Von]

Fred,
The eastern coyote will weigh in about 40+ lbs for a male. I have shot a few that weighed in over 55 lbs. And the largest shot around here was one at 81 lbs. While out west a male will be about 10 lbs. lighter than thier eastern cousin. Also the eastern will team hunt like wolfs, where as the western is more of a solitary hunter.

 

[Von]

Richard,
They all will hunt in packs, just that the western coyotes are more solitary than the eastern, which is more of a pack animal. The eastern coyote lives and hunts more like a wolf pack. With thier larger size they can pull down larger game when working together. Attached is a photo of what they can do, and what can happen to them out west! ( no big cats in the east)

 

[TWINKLE_TOES]

Dan,

Something we can agree on/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. I have lived here for going on 30+ years and have never had a problem with the Coyotes. My neighbors lose ducks and chickens to them all the time but they let them run loose in the field, so who's fault is that. We have lost cats to the Coyotes but the ones that stick close to the house do fine. I'm not sure about "save the Coyotes" but I will leave well enough alone.

Al

 

[ERNIEB]

On the pack/solitary issue. I have seen both ways around here. About sundown they will group up, and for a while will yip, howl, bark, and just raise a ruckus in general. After dark, I often hear a single animal calling out. Sometimes, it will move a ways and call out again. Sometimes another animal will answer, sometimes not.
My guess is that while they are part of a pack, they split up to hunt. If they find something of interest to the whole pack, then they communicate it. I also beleave that they call out to keep track of where other coyotes are, and to let others know where it is at.
Without exception, the coyotes I have seen in daylight were all single animals. Randolph AFB is about 10 miles away, and the larger jets pass over on landing and take off. I seldom see the trainers out here. Anyway, there is a pack in a mesquite and brush pasture near me that will really raise cane when one of these jets passes over low. The noise must hurt their ears. This is the only time you will hear them in daylight hours.
Research done on coyote scat indicates they eat a wide variety of items, including vegatation, fruit, and insects. I think it's safe to say that coyotes will take the easiest meal to obtain. They will not use more energy to catch something, then they will recieve from the prey. If food bocomes scarce, then they are willing to go to greater extremes. But, IMO their energy intake and output is like an equation that must balence, and can never go into the negative.

Ernie

 

[GlueGuy]

Ernie,

Right you are. They are a lot like a black bear in that regard. Always ready to take the "easy meal" instead of expending a lot of energy. True omnivores.

As for the previous discussion of size, I would estimate the coyotes in this area to be roughly 30 or 40 pounds. They aren't large, but they do run in packs, and are more likely to be alone during the daylight.

My sister-in-law fences in her "compound" area (~~ 2 acres), and she used 8' deer fencing. Her main concern was keeping the deer out of her garden, but it also keeps coyotes out.

The GlueGuy

 

[Bird]

I don't get out away from the house a great deal at night, but we can go out on the patio at night and sometimes hear several coyotes that sound as if they're together. All the ones I've seen during daylight hours have been singles except for two instances; one morning early this year a pair were cavorting in the pasture next door. And about 4 years ago, I was cutting hay that was in three 10-15 acre patches separated by old hedge rows or tree lines. I cut the smallest patch first, which was in the middle, went and cut another patch, and as I came back through that small middle field, there were 5 coyotes scattered over about a 5-7 acre area apparently getting the mice and/or rats I had exposed with the hay cutter. That was about 3:30 p.m.

Bird

 

[ERNIEB]

<font color=blue>apparently getting the mice and/or rats I had exposed with the hay cutter</font color=blue>
The fact that they should show up so soon, I have to think that they had learned to associate the sound of the machinery with an easy meal.
My biggest concern about them here is with the baby calves. I haven't lost one to coyotes yet, but I've heard of it happening. I've been told that it's most likely to happen when the cow is in the process of calving. I know they will sure go after the afterbirth. Once after a cow had calved and lost her afterbirth, I got a shovel, and carried it about 100 yards away and buried it. The next day, I found that the coyotes had dug it up.
I worry about the babies for the first couple of days while they are still kind of wobbily. And then these cows have a tendency to hide the calf in brush, and then wander out of sight and even earshot.
My cows have never been worked with dogs, but they positively hate them, and will go after one in a New York minute. I have to think they have been deviled by either coyotes, or stray dogs. Although I've never seen it.

Ernie