Counterbalance weights on 3ph

[Atlanta Panther]

Given I am trying to maximize the weight I can lift with my new forks (or a bucket, for that matter), I know I need to counterbalance with weight on the 3PH. I have loaded rear tires , but no weights to put on other than a bushhog or other 3P implement. I was thinking about filling up my 60 gal boomless sprayer tank with water. At 8.34 #/gal this should give me an additional 500# or so in the back. Would this be an effective counterbalance for my max loader lifting capacity (maybe 1000#???) or do I need more? Also, I am putting 30psi in all four of my R4s. which I think is what the manual recommends. Should I modify that tire pressure?

Thanks in advance.

Equipment: Kubota L3200HST with Loaded R4 Tires, LA524 Loader and Quick Connect 66" bucket

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I would go by the manufacturer recommendations for max load. Best way to find out is throw the sprayer or brush hog on and give it a shot! Just take it low and easy.

 

[diesel85]

Lifting with the bucket and lifting with forks is two entirely different scenarios.

Before you continue reading... I highly recommend reading this: Powered Industrial Trucks eTool: Operating the Forklift - Load Handling: Load Composition

And remember... your tractor is not a Yale forklift.

Lifting dirt/stone with a bucket is more or less forgiving because you are putting the load closer to the center of gravity to the machine. Pallet forks work entirely different. You are putting the weight further out from you, so your counterbalance needs to be:

1. Solid -- I would never use a water container as a ballast. You are just waiting for an accident.
2. Proper weight -- If you are planning on picking up 800 lbs up front on pallet forks, I would have no less than 1000 lbs on the rear to keep you from wobbling forwards and backwards.
3. Tire pressure should be where your manual recommends. 30 PSI sounds about good.

If you use pallet forks, keep in mind your loading on the forks. Try to figure out where the heaviest point is on the pallet (basically which side of the pallet is you should put closer to the center of gravity of the machine).

Lifting heavy pallets on a tractor requires practice, especially if you nearing in on your max capacities. Know your limits and the limits of your machine. Keep things as low as possible during travel and make sure there are no pedestrians and children around.

One thing I learned during my OSHA forklift session was how many ways you can get hurt using a forklift type machine. Please be careful!

According to the specs your LA524 loader will lift:
Lift to full height (at pin): 1,131 lbs
Lift to full height (at 20 inches): 855 lbs
Lift to 5 feet (at pin): 1,490 lbs
Lift to 5 feet (at 20 inches): 1,182 lbs

So with that in mind, you need to do some maths.

I am assuming you have the quick connect forks that weigh in the neighborhood of 250 lbs (with chains and appropriate accessories included).

So if your bucket can lift 1,182 lbs at 20" at 5 feet, at the middle of your forks, you are looking at about (using: 20/28*1182) 844 lbs at 5 feet give or take. If your load is toward the end of the forks: 20/36*1182=656 lbs.

As you can see, the further your you get, the less you can lift. But the forces on your tractor are the SAME and worse when travelling.

Hopefully this helps and good luck.

 

[Atlanta Panther]

Lifting with the bucket and lifting with forks is two entirely different scenarios.

Before you continue reading... I highly recommend reading this: Powered Industrial Trucks eTool: Operating the Forklift - Load Handling: Load Composition

And remember... your tractor is not a Yale forklift.

Lifting dirt/stone with a bucket is more or less forgiving because you are putting the load closer to the center of gravity to the machine. Pallet forks work entirely different. You are putting the weight further out from you, so your counterbalance needs to be:

1. Solid -- I would never use a water container as a ballast. You are just waiting for an accident.
2. Proper weight -- If you are planning on picking up 800 lbs up front on pallet forks, I would have no less than 1000 lbs on the rear to keep you from wobbling forwards and backwards.
3. Tire pressure should be where your manual recommends. 30 PSI sounds about good.

If you use pallet forks, keep in mind your loading on the forks. Try to figure out where the heaviest point is on the pallet (basically which side of the pallet is you should put closer to the center of gravity of the machine).

Lifting heavy pallets on a tractor requires practice, especially if you nearing in on your max capacities. Know your limits and the limits of your machine. Keep things as low as possible during travel and make sure there are no pedestrians and children around.

One thing I learned during my OSHA forklift session was how many ways you can get hurt using a forklift type machine. Please be careful!

According to the specs your LA524 loader will lift:
Lift to full height (at pin): 1,131 lbs
Lift to full height (at 20 inches): 855 lbs
Lift to 5 feet (at pin): 1,490 lbs
Lift to 5 feet (at 20 inches): 1,182 lbs

So with that in mind, you need to do some maths.

I am assuming you have the quick connect forks that weigh in the neighborhood of 250 lbs (with chains and appropriate accessories included).

So if your bucket can lift 1,182 lbs at 20" at 5 feet, at the middle of your forks, you are looking at about (using: 20/28*1182) 844 lbs at 5 feet give or take. If your load is toward the end of the forks: 20/36*1182=656 lbs.

As you can see, the further your you get, the less you can lift. But the forces on your tractor are the SAME and worse when travelling.

Hopefully this helps and good luck.

This is really helpful, Diesel. I'm going to look at the link you gave me right now!

 

[RalphVa]

Most balance I've achieved is when I have about the same amount of stuff in both the FEL and carryall on the back. Very stable then. If you want to lift 1,000 # in the front, you need about 1,000 # on the back to even it out. However, with fork lifts, that weight could be positioned much further out, and you get a big counter lever effect.

I'd use the sprayer full of water. It'll be heavier and won't stick out as far as your bush hog.

Ralph

 

[mljenkins]

1. Solid -- I would never use a water container as a ballast. You are just waiting for an accident.
2. Proper weight -- If you are planning on picking up 800 lbs up front on pallet forks, I would have no less than 1000 lbs on the rear to keep you from wobbling forwards and backwards.
3. Tire pressure should be where your manual recommends. 30 PSI sounds about good.

If you use pallet forks, keep in mind your loading on the forks. Try to figure out where the heaviest point is on the pallet (basically which side of the pallet is you should put closer to the center of gravity of the machine).

Lifting heavy pallets on a tractor requires practice, especially if you nearing in on your max capacities. Know your limits and the limits of your machine. Keep things as low as possible during travel and make sure there are no pedestrians and children around.

Good thinking on not using a liquid ballast. The one time you may consider that is if the ballast were completely full but even still you’ll not likely get every drop and it would slosh. I personally would never use a liquid ballast on the three point. I don’t know why the filled tires don’t seem to have this issue, maybe because they are so low?

I used my 500# rotary cutter or 800# box blade with my NH WM55 for about a 1500# lift. I haven’t tried to lift anything of significant weight with my L6060 without the BH92 backhoe on it. With the backhoe I lifted max weight no issue but I haven’t had a need to move anything heavy yet with just the cutter. My previous tractor all I had was the rotary cutter and a 500# box blade and it was probably the equivalent of the OPs (it was a Long Farmtrac 39HP HST). I never had an issue with it tipping front to back.

In all cases the best advice was the second post back (sorry on my phone and can’t see the previous posts while typing to give credit) just try slowly and see. The advice about low to ground I can’t stress enough. You want to be able to drop the load fast if there are issues. Hillside work is even worse and you have to compensate the load side to side to even attempt this, but the reality is the world isn’t flat.

One other warning about the three point ballast, make sure your sway arms are tight especially if on any sort of a hill. My rotary cutter even with the arms tight has a tendency to swing and it will throw the center of gravity enough on the hillside to make a fun ride while using the loader.

I don’t know if there is really any solid calculation you can do for your lift capacity because it will vary by the weight, center of gravity of the tractor and load, and the terrain. Also one other thing to mention is even though a rotary cutter isn’t as heavy as say a box blade, they are much longer so they are going to pull the center of gravity back more so they could be an advantage compared to say a box blade that is only slightly heavier. There are so many variables at play here.

In summary, solid counter weight, ROPS, seatbelt, forks close to the ground, slow speed, and as much weight as you have in an implement on the back.

 

[dodge man]

Get a ballast box. I put off getting one for years and like it. It stays close to the machine so it痴 not sticking out and it痴 easy to vary the amount of weight.

 

[Fallon]

A good ballpark number for 3pt ballast is the weight you want to lift on the 3pt. If in doubt pack some extra weight on the back.

I can tell you the L3200 needs a lot of ballast & is a very light tractor for its loader capacity. A 60" rotary cutter (700lbs maybe) + 200lbs of bags of stuff on the far back of the rotary cutter weren't enough for max lift. Even when you factor in the fact that ballast gets dramatically more effective the further back it is. My R4s in the back were loaded too. Still very sketchy with the back end almost comming off the ground helping a neighbor move some "1,200lbs" hay bales with my pallet forks.

 

[oosik]

Example - my Kubota M6040 - on paper - can lift 3200+ with 820 pound grapple on the FEL. So - at a point twelve inches forward of the bucket pins - it can lift a little over 4000 pounds. I've lifted a pine log that weighed 2850#. I definitely would not lift more without more weight out back. For weight - rear tires loaded with Rimguard = 1550# total -- Rear blade = 1050#.

I lifted that chunk of log just high enough that the grapple didn't leave drag marks in the dirt as I backed up.

In my case - the weight of the Rimguard in the tires and the 3-point implement dictate - pretty much - what I'm going to lift with the grapple.

Remember - the more you lift - the greater the possibility of an accident if the unexpected should happen. Example - you roll a tire off the front rim - one of your tires goes into a hole or depression.

Go slow - keep it low. You are NOT on a forklift.

 

[Fallon]

Good thinking on not using a liquid ballast. The one time you may consider that is if the ballast were completely full but even still you’ll not likely get every drop and it would slosh. I personally would never use a liquid ballast on the three point. I don’t know why the filled tires don’t seem to have this issue, maybe because they are so low?

I used my 500# rotary cutter or 800# box blade with my NH WM55 for about a 1500# lift. I haven’t tried to lift anything of significant weight with my L6060 without the BH92 backhoe on it. With the backhoe I lifted max weight no issue but I haven’t had a need to move anything heavy yet with just the cutter. My previous tractor all I had was the rotary cutter and a 500# box blade and it was probably the equivalent of the OPs (it was a Long Farmtrac 39HP HST). I never had an issue with it tipping front to back.

In all cases the best advice was the second post back (sorry on my phone and can’t see the previous posts while typing to give credit) just try slowly and see. The advice about low to ground I can’t stress enough. You want to be able to drop the load fast if there are issues. Hillside work is even worse and you have to compensate the load side to side to even attempt this, but the reality is the world isn’t flat.

One other warning about the three point ballast, make sure your sway arms are tight especially if on any sort of a hill. My rotary cutter even with the arms tight has a tendency to swing and it will throw the center of gravity enough on the hillside to make a fun ride while using the loader.

I don’t know if there is really any solid calculation you can do for your lift capacity because it will vary by the weight, center of gravity of the tractor and load, and the terrain. Also one other thing to mention is even though a rotary cutter isn’t as heavy as say a box blade, they are much longer so they are going to pull the center of gravity back more so they could be an advantage compared to say a box blade that is only slightly heavier. There are so many variables at play here.

In summary, solid counter weight, ROPS, seatbelt, forks close to the ground, slow speed, and as much weight as you have in an implement on the back.

The machine weight & design has a lot to do with things. Your L6060 experience isn't going to be super relevant. It can have a bigger loader on it than my L4060, but is otherwise pretty similar.

My L3200 had a max rated lift of around 1,200lbs & could lift a decent bit more when you figure in pallet forks & how far forward the hay bales were. I probably had 1,000lbs of ballast (noticeably more when you factor in how far back it was). It was sketchy as ****.

My L4060 is rated to 1,700lbs or so & barely lifted 1,900lbs. Despite having 600-700lbs of ballast on the back it felt more stable than the L3200 ever did, regardless of anything being on the loader.

Tire/wheel ballast will help a bit. But it wont unload the front axle & can actually increase the load on the front axle.