Counter weight size question - Is there a way to calculate the correct weight?

[mslisaj]

I've had my MT125 now for two and a half years and it's been a great machine. I have the LS backhoe on it and that weighs about 700 pounds and is a great counter balance. But I soon discovered that when I was trying to push snow with that on the front end was too light too steer on the ice with the bucket in float. So I removed the hoe and that solved that problem. So I built a 400 pound counter weight out of old wheel weights and it works just fine. A couple of weeks ago I was really using the bucket with out the hoe moving some very heavy log rounds and that got me thinking again about that 400 pound counter weight. I'm about to add another 130 pound weight to my stack and this will make the total weight back there 530 pounds. I've looked this question up in my owners manual and it doesn't give specifics or even real recommendations on weight only that it's a must to have something back there.
My question here is, is there a method to calculate the proper amount of counter weight for what the loader will lift? The 700 pound backhoe seems the maximum but makes the steering tires light when the bucket is empty or lightly loaded. The 400 pound weight works but is it enough for a heavy lift?
I'm going to add the extra 130 pounds to it today but I am curious to know if there is a way to actually calculate the proper weight or is it trial and error.

Thanks for your help and idea.

Lisa

 

[old and tired]

... or is it trial and error.

Never seen a formula on this or other sites (and I've been around for quite a while). Really depends on what you are doing, where you are driving (lawn/mud/solid ground) so many factors come into play. It's nice if you could adjust a weight bucket. Do you have your tires loaded with fluid? My little tractor uses about 700 pound counter weight that's a bit farther back away from the tractor. I also have my tires loaded. I feel pretty good but have lifted too much a time or two. Trial and error!!

 

[TractorGuy]

I think a basic rule of thumb would be to add the lift capacity of your loader to the rear and you should be okay for heavy work. If you can lift 1200 lbs and have 400 lb in wheel weights or loaded tires you should hang another 800 lbs on the 3 pt.

Not sure about LS but John Deere lists the suggested ballast in the loader owners manual. They usually give a combination of wheel weight, loaded tires, and 3 pt weight. On my 4310 it comes out to about 1200 lbs ballast but my tractor is light in the rear. For brush and small logs I can get by with a disc harrow. I built a 1200 lb 3 pt ballast for doing heavy work. I don't have loaded tires or wheel weights.

 

[oosik]

JMHO - but - I don't think manufacturers list suggested counter weight because - 1) conditions can vary so much & 2) liability. My Owner Manual says - " be sure to have sufficient rear ballast".

I have my Rhino rear blade ( 1010# ) on the 3-point and 1550# of RimGuard in the rear tires. Every once in a great while - when lifting an enormous rock - I will get that "light in the seat" feeling. I stop - strap the rock and drag it - if it's really important.

And NO - I know of no formula.

 

[mred2]

I think the best advise is, "it depends". The best ballast would be adjustable. I have suit case weights that I can add on the edge of my box blade. At 50 pounds each, they work fine. I can adjust the weight. I know some people use water tanks and put water in or drain out.

 

[CobyRupert]

I think you’re looking more for a rule of thumb.

I think the closest formula (or definition) is:
1 ft-lb (torque) = 1 pound x 1 foot. Or applying 1 pound of force on a lever 1 foot long produced 1 ft-lb of rotational torque.

Note that the distance the ballast extends away is as important as any weight listed.

That’s probably why manufacturers probably don’t list a weight.

I can guarantee you 200lbs is enough rear ballast for ANY tractor IF I get to pick the distance it extends away from the tractor. (I won’t guarantee its length will be short enough to park on your property.)

It gets more complicated with a tractor. Where the FEL is a lever acting on the front axle, and ballast on the back is a lever acting on the back axle. Even more so considering the rotational forces of applying traction.
Consider also that the weight in the FEL and distances (if using forks, etc..) varies, or goes away using float mode. Or how far backhoe is extended.

If you wanted to get science-ma- tific about it, if you knew the unloaded tractor’s weight at each axle, and distances from rear ballast to rear axle, distance between axles, and distance to FEL load, you could calculate the torque effects additional weight at each end adds (or counters).

 

[mslisaj]

Thank you all for weighing in on this question. Yes Coby you hit the nail on the head as that was the kind of calculation I was looking for but I'm not dragging out the calculator or tape measure for that much. I feel my MT125 (SCUT) is kind of hydraulically limited too. But overloading the front axle is truly the issue here.
Attached are some pictures of the ballast weight that I built. That is 400 pounds. I'm gonna add one more 130 pounder and see how that feels. I've never had that "light in the seat" feeling but I'm just thinking about the load on that front axle.

I truly appreciate all your thoughts here as it helps me feel good about my decisions here.

Best regards,

Lisa

BTW, my rear tires are NOT loaded.

 

[mslisaj]

Well after some work and welding I got the BIG weight in the stack. I had to make a spacer to take up the slack between the 10" center hole and the 2" trailer hitch bar but that is done and now it's all back together. The orange weight is an F&H DP2628 and it's 130 pounds. The 400 pounds that this weight was total worked pretty well but I'll more confident now with this 530 pounds hanging off the three point.

Thanks again gentlemen for your thoughts and suggestions.

Regards,
Lisa

 

[Diggin It]

I don't consider the BH to be a counterweight. If anything it can be more detrimental due to the height. To me, it always feels top heavy and off balance, so I remove it unless I'll be digging. That 800 pound preying mantis back there is tricky and prone to bumping into things.


To me, my 48" tiller is far more effective since it's virtually all below the CoG.

My rear tires ARE loaded, so I don't always put anything on back there since I'm not usually moving much weight very far.

 

[PILOON]

There is a formula.
Used in aviation to balance an aircraft.
One pound at 10 ft = 10 ft lbs.
10 lbs at 1 ft = 10 ft lbs
Aircraft generally use the firewall as the datum (reference) point.
A tractor generally uses distance from the front axle as the reference point, eg 1000 lbs (in bucket) at X dist.
You work it back from there.

Back to statement, yes a backhoe is a good counterweight and better when the stick is extended.
The hoe arm extended (perhaps 200 lbs? @ 10 ft) would be same as 10 lbs @ 2 ft.

Want to prove it?
Load the FEL 'til the rear lifts off the ground then extend your hoe and your tractor will sit down again!