Oil & Fuel Correct Oil Viscosity

/ Correct Oil Viscosity #21  
Sully2 said:
If they are so smart...why did they specify oils whos API rating went OBSOLETE in 1995..????

CG is a current API rating. Newer oil ratings require less sulfer in the fue.
API Oil Service Categories

Kubota's oil recommendations depend on type of fuel used.
CF with any diesel fuel including "off road" fuel
CG-4, CH-4, CI-4 with Low Sulfer Diesel
CJ-4 with Ultra-Low Sulfer Diesel
Kubota Tractor USA - Lubricants Schedule

So if you use Ultra-Low Sulfer Diesel as sold at your local "gas" station, you can use oil with the latest rating.
 
/ Correct Oil Viscosity #22  
I was checking on oil today in Wally World and was disappointed to find the 5W-40 RotellaT synthetic is only rated CI-4 plus, while RotellaT 15W-40 dino oil meets the CJ-4 spec. :eek: If anything, I would have expected the opposite. I guess that until Shell reformulates RotellaT synthetic, you might be better off not using it with ULSD.
 
/ Correct Oil Viscosity #23  
David Cockey said:
CG is a current API rating. Newer oil ratings require less sulfer in the fue.
API Oil Service Categories

Kubota's oil recommendations depend on type of fuel used.
CF with any diesel fuel including "off road" fuel
CG-4, CH-4, CI-4 with Low Sulfer Diesel
CJ-4 with Ultra-Low Sulfer Diesel
Kubota Tractor USA - Lubricants Schedule

So if you use Ultra-Low Sulfer Diesel as sold at your local "gas" station, you can use oil with the latest rating.

But in MY Kubota owners manual...CC; CD and CE oils were specified..and I bought my tractor in 2005. AT LEAST they could have included the LATEST SPEC ( at the time) for their tractors. There are tons of "info" in their owners manuals that is "hokie as hades" and doesnt make a bit of sense..to anyone including them!
It doesnt really matter to ME because I will changes oils etc...much more frequently that their sched says...because of my low hours of usage per year. Im not leaving oil..as an example...in for 5-6 years just because of low usage...but I'll always use a product that is vastly superior to their specs and to their branded products!!
 
/ Correct Oil Viscosity #24  
Blackbird_BX said:
I was checking on oil today in Wally World and was disappointed to find the 5W-40 RotellaT synthetic is only rated CI-4 plus, while RotellaT 15W-40 dino oil meets the CJ-4 spec. :eek: If anything, I would have expected the opposite. I guess that until Shell reformulates RotellaT synthetic, you might be better off not using it with ULSD.

You can use CJ-4 oil with Ultra-Low Sulfer Diesel fuel. The limit for the oil is the maximum amount of sulfer in the fuel. Less sulfer in the fuel is okay. Have a look at the links I posted above for more information.
 
/ Correct Oil Viscosity #25  
i think mboulais has the best advice in this thread so far.

oil is changing a LOT these days. there is a great deal of technology and it is all bound up in the api classification codes and mysterios additive pacs that are proprietary and known by no one - not even the engineers who developed them. just some old guy at the plant named bob who actually ads them to the vat and he is blindfolded en route to the facility.

the classification codes are what the typical consumer should follow for the best results. if you want to get obsessive, Bob Is The Oil Guy has all the gory details, user testing, lab analysis, etc. anybody could want.

a good example of this is the legislation around synthetic oil and what characterises a full syn lube. several manufacturers have been criticized for bending the rules because their full syn is actually a blend coming from a different base oil group (III rather than IV). recent court case allowed some creative marketing, so now most full syn labeled oils are actually dino blended synthetics or multi base blends. only a handful (royal purple, redline, amsoil, etc.) are actually 100% synthetic before the additive pac is added. and you'll pay a pretty penny for the purity.

writing of additive pacs, there is another area of high tech wizardry. again, legislation has forced confusion. want the zinc and other additives that make your valves last longer in your gas engine? buy mobil 1 truck and suv. it's regular mobil 1 that has the additive pac which was outlawed for regular autos due to emissions, but over the road truckers started experiencing high mileage valve train failures. it was traced to the additive packs missing additives. so if the oil is branded for "truck" use, its allowed to contain the additives outlawed for the regular auto user.

some folks swear by the german made castrol known as GC gold. it is a true synthetic and is the only syntec made in germany. somehow, it manages to turn in some of the best engine wear analysis numbers from any oil. some attritubute it to elves, gummi bear additives or green beer used in the manufacturing process.

oil selection is a complex topic and you can't just do what your dad or grandfather taught you when you were younger. it's virtually impossible for the average person to keep up with this technology.

follow the instructions of the engineers who developed your engine and wrote the manual. use the vicosity recommended by them and make sure your "brand" meets or exceeds the classification code specified.
 
/ Correct Oil Viscosity #26  
canoetrpr said:
rdam - I'm no expert on oils but why pick 10W-30 over 5W-40? I would think that the latter would run better in colder and warmer temperatures.

Whatever did come with the tractor (I assume 10W-30) did run way to hot in the summer time as I have noticed last summer that with the 15W-40, the engine ran a lot cooler.

Somebody gave the best reason for staying with the recommended 10-30. It went something like this: The Kubota engine is manufactured to a very tight tolerance. High quality...like a swiss watch. The thinner viscosity oil is able to get into the tighter tolerance spaces. Hence the recommendation from the factory.

The 30 weight will flow easier in colder temps. A synthetic 30 weight will REALLY flow better in cold weather, and will (should) have the engine running cooler in hot weather. This is based on my experience with an air-cooled motorcycle where the oil temperature was consistently between 5 and 15 degrees less.

15w-40 is not "diesel" motor oil. Yes it is commonly recommended for many diesel engines, but not all...including the Kubotas.
 
/ Correct Oil Viscosity #27  
Sully2 said:
If they are so smart...why did they specify oils whos API rating went OBSOLETE in 1995..????

You mean CD? Does it matter? I think the main issue is the weight, and that it is diesel rated. CD is still listed on oils as follows. I even see CC in there!

"Is recommended for diesel engines and other applications requiring any of the listed worldwide specifications and gasoline engines requiring API SL, SJ, SH... or ACEA A3."

API CI-4+/CH-4/CG-4/SL
API CF/CE/CD/CC
API CF-2/CD-II
Global DHD-1
ACEA A3/B3, E2, E3, E5
JASO DH-1
Mack EO-N Premium Plus ?3
Detroit Diesel Power Guard 93K214
Caterpillar ECF-1-a, ECF-2
Cummins CES 20076/20077/20078 (current), 20071/20072 (older)
Volvo VDS3/VDS2
Mercedes Benz 228.1/228.3/229.1
MAN 3275
MTU Type 1
MIL-PRF-2104G
 
/ Correct Oil Viscosity #28  
Kubota recommends 10w30 above 77 degrees and 10w30 below 32 degrees. These are summer temps. Even last July it got down to 46 degrees. What if it is -16 like this week? Seems odd to me. I had 15w40 when it was -10 in December and it hardly turned over enough to start. I went to Mobil1 5w40 synthetic and it started a lot easier in the same temps. Kubota is too general for oil. If I could get 0w 30 i'd use it. Anyone know of 0w syn? Later Steve.
 
/ Correct Oil Viscosity #29  
ihookem said:
If I could get 0w 30 i'd use it. Anyone know of 0w syn? Later Steve.
Mobil makes 0W-30 Mobil 1, but I haven't been able to find it for awhile. I used it year round when I could get it in my old Geo Metro (the car my dogs are "driving" in my avatar). The thinner the oil, the happier the Metro was. Fuel economy went up and it ran cooler using it. I think the a lot of people are nervous about using 0W-30 in their car, so sales aren't high enough for most stores to stock it. That Metro had over 170,000 miles on it when I sold it and it was still getting over 50 MPG in mixed driving, never used oil or needed any repair other than regular maintenance. I wouldn't use it my Kubota as it is only rated CF. If I could find it I would use it in my cars.
 
/ Correct Oil Viscosity #30  
rdam said:
You mean CD? Does it matter? I think the main issue is the weight, and that it is diesel rated. CD is still listed on oils as follows. I even see CC in there!

"Is recommended for diesel engines and other applications requiring any of the listed worldwide specifications and gasoline engines requiring API SL, SJ, SH... or ACEA A3."

API CI-4+/CH-4/CG-4/SL
API CF/CE/CD/CC
API CF-2/CD-II
Global DHD-1
ACEA A3/B3, E2, E3, E5
JASO DH-1
Mack EO-N Premium Plus ?3
Detroit Diesel Power Guard 93K214
Caterpillar ECF-1-a, ECF-2
Cummins CES 20076/20077/20078 (current), 20071/20072 (older)
Volvo VDS3/VDS2
Mercedes Benz 228.1/228.3/229.1
MAN 3275
MTU Type 1
MIL-PRF-2104G

If it didnt matter at all..then why didnt they at least specify the API spec what was the best in 2005? What their manual IMPLIES is that ANYTHING thats a higher spec that "specified" is A-OK...but like many of the screw-ups in their printed material they dont come outright and say that.

I went with 5W-40 in a SYN oil with the latest spec's and will run that till either I die or the engine blows..because I searched high and low and couldnt find a 10W-30 DIESEL RATED oil that was readily available.
 
/ Correct Oil Viscosity #31  
I'll stick with Diesel Power's suggestion (since he is the expert in this field) and what radam echoed.

It's colder here where I live then in most places although I am not far from the OP.

When my mechanic friend came out to do the service on my Kubota last fall he used Case Akcela 10W-30 and put in Case HY-Trans Ultra hydraulic oil. Since he works for a Case and Kubota heavy equipment outfit and suggested that is what they use up here year round in all their equipment I figured that was good enough for my little tractor too:D
 
/ Correct Oil Viscosity #32  
Sully: What 5W-40 are you using? I'm picking up 8 liters of oil for my 100 hr change and was going to go with 5W-40 or 0W-40.

I have Rotella 5W-40 and Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme 5W-40 available to me.

The Valvoline is a bit cheaper. Both seem to to be acceptably rated (CI-4). I won't run a 30 wt because I found an improvement with the heavier 15W-40 in terms of operating temperature.

Like you I haven't managed to source a diesel rated 10W-30 at a convenient location.
 
/ Correct Oil Viscosity #33  
canoetrpr said:
Sully: What 5W-40 are you using? I'm picking up 8 liters of oil for my 100 hr change and was going to go with 5W-40 or 0W-40.

I have Rotella 5W-40 and Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme 5W-40 available to me.

The Valvoline is a bit cheaper. Both seem to to be acceptably rated (CI-4). I won't run a 30 wt because I found an improvement with the heavier 15W-40 in terms of operating temperature.

Like you I haven't managed to source a diesel rated 10W-30 at a convenient location.

I went with the Rotella( readily available to me) Around here the Valvolene is priced like GOLD!!??

Id have stuck with 10W-30 oil if I could have found something other than Kubota branded stuff ( available only at Kubota)..and if you ever bought any parts from Kubota you know why I changed brands!...lol./ But when I found I could buy FOR LESS $..and product that was SUPERIOR...I asked myself "Why Not??".
 
/ Correct Oil Viscosity #34  
Geez -

New tractor owner here. I thought this thread would help me figure out what oil to use in my new "pre-owned" :) Kubota L245DT. On the contrary, I'm now more confused than ever.

The recommended oils in the operator's manual from my circa 1980 tractor are as follows:

Above 77F: SAE 30
32-77F: SAE 20
Below 32: SAE 10W, 10W-30

What would this translate to in today's oils considering the following facts:

1. I will be running it in all seasons (but mostly spring and fall) in western Pennsylvania.
2. It will spend some cold winter mornings parked at a property where I do not have electric power to warm up with a block heater.
3. I will be using whatever grade of diesel is available at the local gas station. (I've never checked - are all gas station diesels now ultra-low sulfur?)

Any recommendations? Not sure if I understand the API system as it applies to older engines. I guess any of the current C categories would be acceptable? For instance, if you use ultra-low sulfur diesel, do you HAVE to use CJ-4, or is that just the optimal performance grade, while all other current C grades would be okay?

A summary of this thread, perhaps "Oil for Dummies", would be most appreciated.

Thanks
Matt
 
/ Correct Oil Viscosity #35  
you can stilll find straight 30 weight. i would go with that. try a tractor supply store or a good auto parts store.

we use sae 30 in our 1954 ford 800 tractor as originally recommended in the manual. we also have to add lead substitute to the gas to protect the valves. runs like a champ.

amp
 
/ Correct Oil Viscosity #36  
ampsucker said:
you can stilll find straight 30 weight. i would go with that.amp

Amp -

My specs only call for 30 weight at higher than 77 degrees and 20 weight from 32-77. I would guess I will typically be running it in the latter range, so was thinking about using 15w-40, which should also give me better starting in winter than 30 weight, right?

Do you think I need the extra viscosity of 30 weight, even at moderate temps?

-Matt
 
/ Correct Oil Viscosity #37  
i may be way off base here, but i think more important than the classifications used today might be the technology available at the time the engine was manufactured. for example:

- machining tolerances within the engine itself plays a role in oil viscosity selection (oil pump design, journals, rings crank and rod bushings, etc.)
- operating temp once warmed up plays a role (thermostat selection)
- materials used in gaskets and seals plays a role

For example, going to a synthetic often causes major leakage in older engines designed for dino oil due to the smaller and consistant molecular size of the synthetic bases.

I assume your Kubota's engine was made in Japan in 1980. I know very little about diesel engines of that era and location. I had a 1977 japanese gas engine in a Datsun 280z and ran whatever I could find in it that was cheap. But, then again, I was 17 and it had 140,000 miles on it when I bought it. ;-)

I can also tell you that our old Ford 800 turns over every time I need her to in the coldest winter we get around here with straight 30. We keep a good cold cranking battery in it but other than that, nothing special. But, it's also a gasser so not the extra load of glowing. It can get into the single digits here in the Midwest. Takes a while for the hydraulics to warm up, but no problems starting due to the oil.

Help any? Maybe someone with more experience in your particular application and location can chime in?
 
/ Correct Oil Viscosity #38  
Thanks Amp.

Anybody else have an L245DT out there? What oil do you use in it? For that matter, how about transmission/hydraulic fluid?

Thanks
Matt
 
/ Correct Oil Viscosity #39  
Finally did my 100 hr service today and replaced the 15W-40 with Valvoline 5W-40. What a difference in a cold start! The engine purrs with the Valvoline.

Turns out that one of the reasons it was cheaper than the Rotella synthetic is that the Valvoline's were 3.78 L jugs while the Rotella is a 4 L jug. I used about 1.5 jugs.

If it performs as well in the summer as the 15W-40 then I think it is a fantastic setup.
 
/ Correct Oil Viscosity #40  
Matt- Our old tractor is an L245DT, bought well used. I use Rotella 15-40, pretty standard for diesel engines,especially older ones, and available most everywhere. For trans./hydraulic fluid, I got that in 5 gallon pails of generic tractor fluid at Sam's Club.
 

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