Concealed Carry and Consequences

   / Concealed Carry and Consequences #1  

LMTC

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I've read both current threads about firearms of choice with great interest, as this is a subject near and dear to my heart. Many years ago (and multiple eyeglass prescriptions back:() I used to shoot handguns very seriously. My tool of choice for years was a K-38....S&W model 14-4, 38 Special full target model (different grips, hammer, trigger). I was very, very fortunate to be taught by a gentleman who was then nationally ranked, and was also the founder of a big city SWAT team. An excellent shooter, and a good instructor.

I was more fortunate to have a mentor for many years....a man 25+ years my elder who had been in the Marines and saw much action in the Pacific theatre. This man knew practical shooting--self-defense, hunting, etc. as well as anyone I've ever known. He is the person who made me "night-fire" the first time. He would intentionally pose situations and scenarios to me to help me be aware of surroundings and possibilities. He is also the man I went to and cried on, after tossing my cookies, the first time I ever held a gun on someone. The situation ended without violence, as the other parties surrendered, but I knew I would have shot if necessary. That realization just went through me afterwards like an earthquake.

So----for those of you who have not seen combat duty, and are not LEOs, it is highly likely you have never had to face this. And for you it might be different.....but I doubt it. I am curious as to how many have had similar experiences, how you reacted, and for those who have not, have you tried to anticipate just how stressful such a situation is? I spent several hours with this man--my mentor--that night, who then told me of the first hand-to-hand kill he had in WW2. He and one other man were assigned to remove a sentry so they could observe an encampment; he told me when he returned in the morning, he also got sick. Then he told me not to worry until such a situation did NOT make me ill.

I have also had a gun held on me and several others, by a robber (near "The Flats" in Cleveland, 1979 I think) and that too brings on some strange thoughts and feelings, though I did not get sick as I did when I was the one holding the gun. I could read "Colt MK" on the side of the barrel, and distinctly remember thinking "the hammer is down, he can't shoot me without cocking", and feeling some relief with that thought. Funny what goes through your mind at such times. He got what he wanted and fled. If I'd been carrying I could have dropped him as he turned and fled. Would I have? Probably not.

I guess the gist of all this is to at least be aware that even with frequent practice as to how to respond, there will still be factors you cannot know beforehand. Without practice (both at the range and just rehearsing scenarios, even in your mind) one is probably unlikely to respond well and carrying may just be a useless exercise.
 
   / Concealed Carry and Consequences #3  
It's not unusual for this topic to arise in these handgun threads.

Talking about what caliber is needed to 'take out the bad guy', "if someone broke into my house, they'd get both barrels" kind of talk contains quite a bit of bluster and is more how someone would like to act, not how they would. No, I'm not an anti-gun nut, I own guns, both long guns and pistols, but I don't kid myself either. Being the means by which someone enters eternity is no small thing, no matter how bad the bad guy is.

As you've mentioned, people who are trained, extensively, to do just this do not take it lightly when it happens and are changed forever by the experience.
 
   / Concealed Carry and Consequences #4  
people who are trained, extensively, to do just this do not take it lightly when it happens

I've seen how the personalities of police officers change when they shoot someone. And even when everyone agrees there was no choice; the officer was entirely right in what he did, a lot of officers get out of law enforcement soon after the incident.

I had to carry a gun for 25 year; the rules even required it off duty; any time away from our home. I came very close to shooting a fellow one night, but he dropped his gun just in time. If I had shot him, it would have all been a clear cut case of self defense with no legal problems, but how would I have felt? I don't know how bad it would have been, but I know I sure would have regretted it. He was bluffing with a starter pistol that wouldn't even shoot anything but blanks.:eek:

Now I could legally carry a concealed weapon. All I have to do is qualify once a year. But I don't. Maybe someday something will happen that will make me wish I had a gun, but what are the odds? Actually pretty slim.

Some now are saying college professors, school teachers, maybe even students, should be armed so they could stop the sort of thing that happened at Columbine and Virginia Tech. I won't dispute that possibility, but two points seem to be overlooked in most of the discussions: (1) what are the odds of such an atrocious act happening again, and (2) will the good guys with guns be good enough shots, calm enough, etc. to shoot the bad guys without shooting innocent bystanders?

I don't have any objection to you carrying your concealed weapon, as long as it's legal, you're qualified to carry it, etc. but as a general rule, I don't want to go to the inconvenience of having to carry one myself.
 
   / Concealed Carry and Consequences #5  
In PA, a person (or another close by) has to be in imminent danger of death, serious injury or rape to use lethal force. The person has a duty to retreat if at all possible.

The intent is to stop the attack, not necessarily kill an attacker.

I look at it this way...if I've got to shoot, it was because I or another would have been attacked with deadly intent.

So, you're carrying a gun or other weapon to save your life or the life of another person (wife, child). It may be a choice between your life or the attacker's life.

No matter how justified, an event such as this is going to affect you.

Bird's comments about teachers, students and other carrying a CCW brings up a good point. I opened a post on a gun web site concerning this very topic. If one carries a gun (on campus or anywhere else), it's not up to them to look for the evil doer...that's the cop's job. The CCW carrier should stay right where they are and defend themselves if the perp comes to them.
I'm not going to start this topic in this post...it would be quite lengthy.
 
   / Concealed Carry and Consequences #6  
I just want the right to chose whether or not I can carry. The politicians in my state (Maryland) have ruled that I do not have that right, even though the U.S. Constitution says I do.

I do however have a non-resident CCW permit from the state of Utah, and am getting one from the state of Florida that will let me carry in about 35 or so states. These state recognize my rights.

A great site for carry info is Packing.org Concealed Carry (CCW), Concealed Weapon Permit, Concealed Weapon Law : Home
 
   / Concealed Carry and Consequences #7  
kennyd said:
I just want the right to chose whether or not I can carry. The politicians in my state (Maryland) have ruled that I do not have that right, even though the U.S. Constitution says I do.
Where in the constitution does it guarantee the right to carry a concealed weapon?
 
   / Concealed Carry and Consequences
  • Thread Starter
#8  
He didn't say the Constitution guaranteed the right to carry a concealed weapon. His initial statement is regarding carrying. I would tend to think that most folks who accept the original intent of the Second Amendment to be an individual right would agree that "keep and bear" would include carry.
 
   / Concealed Carry and Consequences #9  
Then I was confused by the second paragraph where he mentions he has a CCW from another state and the third paragraph where he mentions a site dealing with CCW.
 
   / Concealed Carry and Consequences #10  
After 22 years in Special Operations and Airborne units, I've had folks shoot at me, shoot me, and be shot by me over the past 20 years. It sounds kind of glib but, speaking from personal experience, I much prefer the third option.

I get the shakes afterwards everytime. While it's happening, I get very, very calm and I mentally talk to myself a lot. I figure that's an OK reaction on both fronts.

If you made it through the crisis and reacted appropriately, don't worry too much about how your body deals with all the excess adrenaline afterwards. Do find someone who's been there to talk with about it. And don't second guess yourself too much.

Keep the faith.
 

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