Compact tractoring on the cheap!?

Soundguy · Jul 10, 2003

You and Egon are right.. it isn't a dollar for dollar comparison specifically.. It isn't taking into account inflation. The real point to look at is the tractor is 50+ years old, and can be sold for a reasonable portion of it's adjusted purchase price.. hard to do that with non-collectible hardware that gets worked every day out in the dirt, then left out in the rain.. etc.

In reality, all the 'improvements' we have come up with for tractors in the last 50 years also makes them more fragile.

My 8n has a master wiring harness I can roll up and put in my pocket... basically just a starter line, ignition line, and chargeing line.... My 1920 probably has a mile of wire on it.. and I'd wager that most of them have to be hooked up for that thing too run.... Lets see it run after sitting out in a field for 50 years.... I would imagine all the electronic gizmos' etc.. would/will be toast..... but this is drifting way OT..

Soundguy

slowrev · Jul 10, 2003

Soundguy,
Can't disagree with you at all. In my opinion the simpler the better. The more complicated the mechanism is the more often it will fail. And the more it will cost to maintain. This is simple statistical reliability stuff. I like a tractor That I can fix in the field if I need to, not one that will have to be hooked up to a dealers diagnostic computer to troubleshoot it.

Keep it simple

Slamfire · Jul 11, 2003

A tractor built in 1976 hardly qualifies a current, although I do admit it has a 30 year start on the Ford. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

rdam · Jul 11, 2003

Cowboydoc,

You write, "Just for example you can buy that 5103 with 44 hp, 11.4/gallon/minute SEPARATE hydraulics, with a hitch lift capacity of over 3k, and a loader lift capacity of over 2k, power hydro steering, convertible 2 to 1 links, telesc. links, etc. for around $13k with a loader".

Point me to the dealer cause I'm buying one!!!

Midlawns quotes $12,999 without loader.

$13,000 with a loader?????

cowboydoc · Jul 11, 2003

For the base unit without any extras and the base loader my price was $13,372.25. For the same in the 5303 my price was $16,400. At $12,999 they aren't even giving you 10% off of list. I usually get around 20-25% off of list. Some things higher just depends.

shady1701 · Jul 11, 2003

All my money's on grey or should i say massey,agco,jd,new holland and kubota from afar? all the smaller less than 30hp come from over seas there's no one out there that can say a jd a massey what ever in these small tractors are better than the grey markets there not there just not as politicaly correct as the american counterparts.

From my reading of the post of the "big" name one's i see why everyone's so proud and defensive of there tractor they have to refinance there farm just to afford the repair bill..

fivestring · Jul 11, 2003

What kind do you have, shady?

slowrev · Jul 11, 2003

Yes I agree, the Grey's are ok, unless they are the Refurbished (worn out) ones with a new coat of paint. JD and the others do not want them selling in the US in competition with their more expensive ones /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif The only problem I have with the grey ones is the parts availability and manual availability.

Ben

rtimgray · Jul 11, 2003

I agree: just from what I have read on this board and others (no personal experience), the "refurbished" tractors are the ones to steer clear of...although a while back on the Yanmar portion of this board a question was thrown out to owners of the "refurbished" tractors, and I don't think it got too many unfavorable responses.

As far as manuals go, I've never had any problem finding parts manuals (in Japanese, of course) for the Yanmars that I've had, or a Shibaura that I looked at. For the YM series Yanmars, there is and I & T (InterTec?) manual that covers the non-grey Yanmars that is pretty good and makes sense of most of the mechanical issues. I don't know about the other brands, but I imagine parts manuals can be had.

Operators manuals are definately nice, but very few of the tractors or equipment that my family has owned came with manuals (bought used). That doesn't mean they wouldn't have been nice for operation/maintenance purposes, but it's not a prerequisite for me to have a manual with the equipment.

I haven't needed parts for my Yanmar aside from maintenance items (filters), so I don't know about the parts issue. Finding parts for the YM series is not too tough due to number of grey YMs being imported. I doubt I'll have too much trouble locating any parts for my F16D when the time comes, but they'll probably cost some bucks...but then again, don't all tractor parts.

Take it Easy

Tim Gray

fivestring · Jul 11, 2003

Same here, rtimgray. I've not had a problem with manuals, parts or service for my Iseki TU1700f.
The original post was for a tractor and a couple of implements for under $5000. The first few responses were all JD, IH, etc., none of which with 2 implements could have been had for that price. I think the main reason the big 3 don't like the greys is because of price. They loose business mainly on price, so to counter that, they slam greys. I spent 4 months researching tractors and for the $$$, it's hard to beat the greys. One of the best articles I saw was on the main uses of the Jap tractors. TILL RICE PADDIES. No rocks, no stumps in those paddies... hasn't been in centuries!. Other than water, the tractors are hardly worked by the Japs! Over here, the first thing we do is put an FEL on and go dig stumps and rocks!!!
This has been an excellent thread with a lot of tractor info. It's good to be a member of TBN and share info and learn info from others.

curtis · Jul 11, 2003

you can't go wrong with a ford .

Bob_Skurka · Jul 12, 2003

I agree with a lot of what was said about a lot of the tractors. I own a '56 Oliver Super 55 (similar, but more advanced than a Ford 8N) and love it, but find it less convenient than my NH CT24D. The older tractors won't turn a tight circle they cut a wide swath and are great in a lot of conditions, but not in tight spaces. My Oliver is probably worth $3500, is restored to very nice (but not perfect) condition, and is a great tractor, cheap to maintain, and fun to drive. The big advantage is the weight and power of the old iron, get it moving and you can yank out a stump, cut a ditch, etc. The small tractors strain and choke under work loads that old iron handles with ease.

On the other hand, my new NH CT24D is small and agile and turns on a dime. It cost a bit over $11,500 but is certainly my choice when I have to get things done on my property which is full of steep hills, ruts, bumps and trees. I thought about Grey Market tractors and they are priced about the same price as the "old iron" but parts are sporatic, service is spotty, and I've found hydrostatic transmissions to be a great option. . .yet none of the Grey Market machines have that (neither does old iron).

rtimgray · Jul 12, 2003

Hi Bob-

You bring up a good point, and maybe one that has been explained somewhere on this board and I've just never seen it: Are we (the USA/North America) the only market for Hydrostatic transmissions? It seems that all of the tractors made for foreign markets, i.e. the Japanese grey market tractors that stay in Japan, the Chinese tractors that stay in China or other countries, the eastern European tractors like Belarus and Zetor, even the Mahindra's of India and the fine tractors coming out of Korea - don't have hydro, or at least very many models of them - for sale in their country of origin/manufacture? It may be just that I've never seen them, but all of the tractors that I've mentioned above, I've only seen hydro in conjunction with what they are marketing in the US. Do the rice farmers of Japan not need hydro for tilling and that is why Yanmar/Kubota/Iseki/Hinomoto/Shibaura/Mitsubishi only equip their Japanese market tractors with gear drive or power shift?

I guess to paraphrase my question, is the American market the prime market (or only market) for Hydro tractors? If so, why? If such a large percentage of the rest of the world gets by without HST on their compact tractors, why does it seem to be such a prerequisite for many American compact tractor owners? Now don't get me wrong - HST is a wonderful thing and I have read a ton of posts on here from folks who thought they didn't have to have it, tried it out, bought a HST tractor and now will never own a tractor without HST. Again, just wondering if we are the only market for these type tractors.

My guess: Well, to start I think that we are richest (or among the richest) countries on Earth and a lot of folks - most folks on this board - have enough disposable income to purchase a tractor for their acreage, whether is be a compact for mowing an acre or a utility for performing chores on 1000 acres or etc. Obviously, a lot of folks like the hydros and the manufacturers listened - so here we are. But still, I wonder: Why is it so appealing to so many folks in the USA but not so much in the rest of the world? Is a tractor viewed as simply a tool to complete a task most other places and here it is viewed as not only a tool but also a recreational vehicle (of sorts) that needs niceties like cup holders, radios, etc. Also, I'm guessing not as many countries have as much "disposable real estate" as the US has, so maybe lots of people don't have a lot/acreage that needs a tractor, and if they don't need a tractor, having a hydrostatic transmission sitting at a chair at the kitchen table probably isn't going to help things out either. Those are my best guesses and I'd like to hear some others. Also, if y'all know of tractor manufacturers that make and market hydros in other countries (I guess I should say I'm lumping Canada in with us on all of the above, sorry)

Sorry for the long post and I know it's really wandering off-topic, but I thought this lively thread might have some input on this subject. Thanks for the help.

Take it Easy

Tim Gray

CountryBoy · Jul 12, 2003

( I think that we are richest (or among the richest) countries on Earth and a lot of folks - )

Are we the richest or are we the most the most in debt country in the world ???

rtimgray · Jul 12, 2003

What I mean by richest is that the amount of disposable income available to an average individual. I don't know a thing about you, but I bet you have more/make more money than the average Vietnamese/Chinese/Chilean/Nigerian/Russian and have access to more land that you either have or could purchase on which to use a tractor.

DavesTractor · Jul 12, 2003

rtimgray,

Yanmar makes a Hydro in the FE line, as well as some of the AF and KE tractors. They also come with ROPS. After they get a few years old, we should start seeing them in the USA.

rtimgray · Jul 12, 2003

Thanks, Daves Tractor. Do you know what is the market for these tractors originally? The same as the other grey market Yanmars, I presume? Do the Japanese farmers find hydro handy for tilling or are they aimed at another Japanese-domestic market (or have you heard/been told)? I've seen a very few grey tractors with Japanese loaders, so I don't think that's real common for them. Anything else they would do (mowing, maybe?)

Thanks for the input.

Slamfire · Jul 12, 2003

Most Japanese are in rice farming. They all belong to a co-op. Many of the tractors bear the names of these co-ops. Unless you know of a company by the same name like Mitsubishi, for example, chances are its branded by a co-op. The members lease the tractors, and when the lease is up the tractors are sold on the gray market. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

DavesTractor · Jul 12, 2003

rtimgray, I'm not sure how the Japanese are using the new hydros. Most of the tractors are still gear tractors, and I would think for tilling hours at a time, you can't beat a gear tractor with a crawl range. I have bought a few Yanmars with factory loaders, but they are rare. It is a different market over there, but I can't say I really understand it.

CountryBoy · Jul 13, 2003

( but I bet you have more/make more money than the average Vietnamese/Chinese/Chilean/Nigerian/Russian and have access to more land that you either have or could )

Heck I am a poor ole West Virginia country boy that lives up in a hollow in rural Appalachia,no shoes,keep my wife barefoot and pregnant(a 3rd world country)....moonshine still..1 leg shorter than the other from walking these hill sides.
These hollows are so deep and the hills so steep we have to lay on our backs to look at the sun. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Every time it rains we run out and sit in the car because the roof leaks so bad on the shack we live in. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif