Commuting revisited- 2011

[Kyle_in_Tex]

My commute is about 70 miles each way. I'm paying about $540./month to buy gasoline at $3.75/gallon. My car gets about 25-26 real world mpg (checked every tank fillup). 2003 Impala, 3.4 V6 pushrod engine.

I'm wondering out loud thinking of options to reduce monthly costs. I have 2 hours a day or more to think about these things. My last commuter was a Saturn that got about 32 mpg on my commute but here's an issue....they have started repaving roads here in Texas with very coarse (marble sized) overlay. You can't hardly hear the radio in most small cars like the Saturn or my mom's '98 Toyota Corolla. I hate this repaving overlay!

Options: #1 Buy mom's Corolla for cheap ($2500). Only has about 55k miles. Gets about 32-34 mpg which is about a 22% improvement. Could save about $120/ month in gas at the expense of the noisy ride. Payoff would be roughly 2 years but would have the benefit and expense of a 3rd vehicle.

#2, Get an electric plug in vehicle that can make the commute. I looked at the Chevy Volt but it won't make it even 1 way on a charge according to what I've read. The Nissan Leaf could make it I think, but surely I'd need my work to offer to let me recharge while there. These vehicles cost over $32,000 or more. The payment would be over $600/month so this doesn't exactly work as my cheapest option. I can't make the numbers work on most any great mileage vehicle that costs over $10K used. My high mileage depreciation devalues whatever vehicle I end up driving. This depreciation can end up costing almost as much as anything else if I were to buy new.

#3, Suck it up and hope the price comes back down soon. I've read to expect these prices to stay up through the summer or longer but I hope not.

I love my job but I love where I live even more. My company is a bit shaky right now and I'd like to see some things get better before I would think about moving closer to work. And, if this job ever ends, there are no other jobs in the area that the pay compares to what I'm getting so I'd have to move again if my job ends. Homes are pricey where my job is but the gas savings would make up the difference I believe.

Are there any other options within reason? Has anyone else thought this through and might I be missing something?

The major costs of commuting are vehicle payment, fuel, depreciation, tires batteries and oil, and of course maintenance and breakdowns. Other costs are insurance and the stress of driving in a noisy tin can compared to a much quieter car at the expense of 5-7 mpg or so.

 

[aczlan]

Have you looked into getting a TDI Volkswagon?
When Dad was commuting to NJ from Upstate NY every week (~6 hrs each way, once a week) he got a 2003 Jetta TDI to replace his 1998 Volvo S70. He went from ~27 MPG highway to 45 or 50 MPG highway.

Aaron Z

 

[BTDT2]

I commute 50 miles and drive a VW Jetta TDI diesel - 42 mpg avg- could get close to 50 mpg if I could stand to slow down

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

I understand the TDI would be the way to go if I had the money to get into one and I didn't care about depreciation. I checked around and used 2006 models (with around 100K on them) are going for 13K to 17K. Aren't they less than 25K new?

Anyway, If I could get one for 15K, the payment would be $457 for 36 months at 6.5%

3 1/2 years ago I gave $6800 for my '03 Impala with brand new Michelins. I have had to replace the transmission at 150,000 miles for $3K. I have put over 100,000 miles on it since I've had it. Payments under the same factors would be $207

So, the TDI payment would be $257 higher, but could save $200 month in fuel. So the difference in payment/fuel would be about $57 in favor of the Impala. Now for the depreciation factor. If I paid $15k for the '06 TDI and put another 100K on it what would it be worth with 200,000 miles on it? I would estimate about $7500 so I would take a $7500 depreciation hit...OUCH! Don't get me wrong, if somebody wants to donate a shiny Jetta TDI to me for a very low price, I'd gladly drive it.

 

[MarkV]

In this economy I would buy Mom's car and drive the wheels off of it. Who knows where gas prices,or, as you implied, your job will be 100K miles from now. No brainer to me. At that price and mileage it will be a fast pay back without adding big personal debt.

MarkV

 

[irvingj]

I also have a TDI Jetta, love it, bought it for it's mileage, and also see right around 50 over the road....

BUT, in your shoes I'd seriously look at a used Buick or Pontiac with a 3.8 V-6. Very tough engine, very decent mileage--28+ over the road, and very comfortable. Used to be they could be had very reasonably.

My Mom had a supercharged Bonneville (SSEI) that got that kind of mileage, even at 75-85mph! (Once it hit 4th gear lockup it never downshifted- only the boost gauge moved up & down a bit....) Her 2005 Buick LeSabre was almost as good.

 

[DieselnHooters]

rent a small room in town, get a mini-fridge , toaster oven and a microwave making the commute a once a week event

 

[Pilot]

Is the Impala paid for?

Spending money on a more expensive car doesn't make economic sense when you consider the interest and depreciation plus higher insurance for a more expensive car. The Corolla, however, looks like a good option, especially if you don't really need the Impala and could go to 2 vehicles.

Noise: Our Saab came with Michelins, which were noisy. When replacement time came, I had a talk with the tire dealer and he recommended Goodyears; I don't remember the model. Much quieter.

Also, some tires claim to have lower rolling resistance, which may boost your mileage a bit, although I don't know if you would be able to calculate the difference.

One thing to remember, is that we periodically have gas price spikes, then the price drops down again but not as low as before the spike (remember a couple years ago we saw $4, then it went down to around $3.25). Except for the Corolla, I wouldn't make any changes until we see where the price settles down to again, especially if the job is chancy.

Range before recharge on electric cars is overstated for real world conditions. One of the car mags drove a Leaf and got about 67 miles, not the 100 they claim. Drive at night, your lights draw down your battery. Need heat on a cold day? Lose range. Battery getting old? Won't go as far. And if it runs down before you get home, you can't just have someone pour in a gallon of electricity. Lastly, you get home, the phone is ringing and you rush to answer it (or whatever distraction you might imagine) and next morning you go out and find you forgot to plug it in.

One thing I would not do is spend several thousand $$ to save money on gas. You would have to get miracle mileage for that to pencil out.

 

[Tony_S]

As Sammy Hagar said..."Get on your bad motor scooter and ride.

 

[jinman]

Kyle, I drove 140+ miles round trip to work for six years before I retired. Actually, when I owned two houses, I'd drive 180+ miles twice a week. I started my commute with my old Dodge diesel truck that got 22 mpg, but the price of diesel forced me to look for alternatives. I bought an old Honda from my neighbors for $1500 and spent $1500 on it in repairs. It got my mileage up to 29 mpg and changed to gasoline which was cheaper as diesel was rising toward $5 per gallon. Of course, diesel came down, but I never went back to commuting in the diesel. Instead, I gave the Honda to my daughter and bought a Pontiac Vibe. The Vibe gets 32 mpg on ethanol added gasoline and 34 to 36 mpg on non-ethanol fuel on the highway. They are pretty cheap now that Pontiac no longer exists. I think you can make a good deal on one for $12k to $14k depending on mileage and features. They are essentially a Pontiac styled Toyota Matrix. Ours has been trouble free. It also hauls four people easily with plenty of room (headroom and footroom). The rear hatch and fold-down seats are super for carrying cargo. If you are interested in a new car with lots of features and good mileage at a low price, check out the Kia Sorento. My inlaws have one and it is impressive.

I'd sure be tempted to take that used Toyota for $2.5k. That's a great buy for the mileage. With proper maintenance, Toyotas will go 250k miles or more. The '94 Honda Accord I gave to my daughter had 346k miles on it and was still going strong. They are excellent commuters and will save in oil change costs and tires/brakes because they are just a smaller car and cheaper to maintain.

 

[keegs]

Kyle, I drove 140+ miles round trip to work for six years before I retired. Actually, when I owned two houses, I'd drive 180+ miles twice a week. I started my commute with my old Dodge diesel truck that got 22 mpg, but the price of diesel forced me to look for alternatives. I bought an old Honda from my neighbors for $1500 and spent $1500 on it in repairs. It got my mileage up to 29 mpg and changed to gasoline which was cheaper as diesel was rising toward $5 per gallon. Of course, diesel came down, but I never went back to commuting in the diesel. Instead, I gave the Honda to my daughter and bought a Pontiac Vibe. The Vibe gets 32 mpg on ethanol added gasoline and 34 to 36 mpg on non-ethanol fuel on the highway. They are pretty cheap now that Pontiac no longer exists. I think you can make a good deal on one for $12k to $14k depending on mileage and features. They are essentially a Pontiac styled Toyota Matrix. Ours has been trouble free. It also hauls four people easily with plenty of room (headroom and footroom). The rear hatch and fold-down seats are super for carrying cargo. If you are interested in a new car with lots of features and good mileage at a low price, check out the Kia Sorento. My inlaws have one and it is impressive.

I'd sure be tempted to take that used Toyota for $2.5k. That's a great buy for the mileage. With proper maintenance, Toyotas will go 250k miles or more. The '94 Honda Accord I gave to my daughter had 346k miles on it and was still going strong. They are excellent commuters and will save in oil change costs and tires/brakes because they are just a smaller car and cheaper to maintain.

+1

The extra cost for diesel fuel eats into any savings from improved mileage. I'm surprised that the corolla is only getting 32-34 mpg.. The Mrs. has an 05 which gets 38-40.

 

[westcliffe01]

Considering your location and relatively good weather, try a different angle: Try a used Mazda Miata. They are light, handle great, the older ones have a 1.8l engine. I think it will be an improvement over what you have for not too much money.

Newer stuff gets into Honda Fit (Honda always has the best motors), there is the small Nissan (Versa ?), the Hyundai Accent starting at $10k and the new Elantra is a good looking vehicle for less that anything from GM.

My wife and I bought the 2009 Jetta Tdi and average over 41mpg, with lower speed (55mph zones) running over 50mpg on longer drives. I do have to say that the quality and comfort of the latest generation of Jettas is substantially degraded from the previous generation vehicle. The front seats are hard, too narrow and strongly biased toward the transmission tunnel (probably for crash test ratings) so that long trips are a pain. I personally find that when I drive, my left thigh is on top of the seat bolster, and that hurts after 2-3 hours. Shorter trips not so bad. We had a 2001 model Audi which we traded for the Jetta and could go 6 hours in that with no problem with blood circulation and numb feet....

The VW engineers also built an overly wide center console and a ridiculous switch/mirror control/grab handle into the drivers door all of which have quite sharp edges which bruise your calf/knee area over long drives (just did nearly 1600 miles to florida).

I mention these things only because they will not jump out at you during a brief test drive. The car otherwise is great. Great mileage, quiet in operation, responsive at sea level or at altitude with the common rail injection and VNT turbo system. Just designed for midgets... Keep in mind that a fuel efficient car is an up front investment. Don't expect fuel to be getting cheaper any time soon. The only reason it came down recently was because a lot of people across the world saw a vast change in their economic circumstances, many for the rest of their lives.

 

[radioman]

like I suggested to my wife, instead of working 8 hrs, work 10 hrs a day for 4 days. you save a days worth of driving. after one month, you would save nearly a weeks worth of driving.

 

[Lloyd_E]

For over 21 years I drove 120+ miles a day return trip. I went through a Mazda 626, Jetta diesel and a Ford focus station wagon. I was going through about $320+ a month in fuel plus all of the maintenance stuff you mentioned. Can you commute with some-onew even 1/2 way or a 1/4? I did this and it helped with costs - also gave me a break driving.

To improve mileage I did the following: checked tire pressure weekly, used high-test and drove slightly below the speed limit. I also had oil changes more frequently - at 5000km instead of 8000km. I replaced air filters sooner too. These were small things but did help.
Look up fuel/mileage charts. You'll be surprised at the savings by slowing the vehicle down a few miles per hour. I sat down one day and estimated the fuel cost for 20 years. It was well over the $70,000 mark. Scary!

Good luck.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Ditto slowing down. Dropping from 70mph to 60 mph will save you 10% or more on your gas bill. If I know how Texans drive, you are probably pushing more like 80 mph, and will save 20%. This will add half an hour or 45 minutes to your commute, so stock up on audio books, learn a language, or take a college class. Almost all major universities have their classes online for free download. Have you ever wanted to audit nuclear physics at MIT or history at Harvard? That commute and an MP3 player give you the opportunity.

I also wouldn't be concerned with trade-in on anything you buy. As they say, drive it until the wheels fall off. Just about anything on the road nowadays is good for 250,000 or 300,000 miles.

I just gave my Jeep its first valve job at 255,000 miles, because a head gasket started leaking and I figured I needed to pull the head anyway. The valves were shot, so I replaced them, but the cylinders didn't even have a ridge worn in them. I figure it's good for another 200,000 at least. The big key is to use top quality lubricants and change them often. I change engine oil every 5000 miles, service the transmission and change gear box lube every 50,000 miles, and change the brake fluid every time it starts looking black and contaminated. That last I learned when I had to buy an $800 ABS pump. I also service the cooling system every spring, and change hoses every 5 years. Bad hoses and overheating have put more rigs in the junk yard than anything else.

Dealers won't give you anywhere near what a high mileage vehicle is worth. They just don't want it on their lot. Keep it, drive it like you own it, service it religiously, repair anything that goes wrong before it gets worse, and keep a AAA membership.

I won't suggest what to buy, because low mileage used is your way to minimize commuting expenses.

There are other strategies. I have a co-worker with a long commute who drives to work Monday morning and leaves her car in the company parking lot, where she has it for errands, etc. She rides the bus to work all week, then drives home on Friday night so she can have the car on weekends. A 5 day a week commuter bus pass costs her $28 a month.

I used to work construction, and drove to wherever the job was. I bought a used FSC travel trailer and lived in that during the week. It paid for itself in about 3 years just in commuting and motel costs, and I had a travel trailer to take hunting and fishing.

 

[Pilot]

Carry the slow speed logic to it's extreme and drive 25 or 35 and really save gas!

It actually did give me great gas mileage in a van I had on my last visit to Yellowstone. Went from 16 mpg on the highway to 22 when driving all day thru the park at the 35 limit.

How much is your time worth to you? How do you want to spend your life? Sitting in a car doing 55 while watching everybody else zooms by at 75 or 80, ticked off at you because you slow down an entire lane with your gas saving slow poke speed?

Slowing down in Texas? You'll be run over doing 55!

Here's the scenario. You're in the right lane doing 55, everybody else is doing 75 and those behind move over to get around you whenever they get a chance. A semi closing on you has a chance to make a quick lane change. Another rig behind that one is doing 75 and when the truck in front switches abruptly, the second one can't slow down fast enough and 80,000 pounds slams into you. I've seen close calls in exactly this situation.

I don't buy the slow speed solution.

 

[2manyrocks]

What is your Mom going to do for a car if you buy her Corolla?

You couldn't find a Corolla with only 55k miles on it around here for $2,500.

Are you going to swap cars with your Mom because she doesn't drive much so the MPG isn't as important to her as it is to you?

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Carry the slow speed logic to it's extreme and drive 25 or 35 and really save gas!

It actually did give me great gas mileage in a van I had on my last visit to Yellowstone. Went from 16 mpg on the highway to 22 when driving all day thru the park at the 35 limit.

How much is your time worth to you? How do you want to spend your life? Sitting in a car doing 55 while watching everybody else zooms by at 75 or 80, ticked off at you because you slow down an entire lane with your gas saving slow poke speed?

Slowing down in Texas? You'll be run over doing 55!

Here's the scenario. You're in the right lane doing 55, everybody else is doing 75 and those behind move over to get around you whenever t
hey get a chance. A semi closing on you has a chance to make a quick lane change. Another rig behind that one is doing 75 and when the truck in front switches abruptly, the second one can't slow down fast enough and 80,000 pounds slams into you. I've seen close calls in exactly this situation.

I don't buy the slow speed solution.

I'm not hip on the slow solution. I almost hit a guy from behind when the time changed last month. It was dark, he had a trailer full of absolute junk iron AND NO TAIL LIGHTS. I figured he was doing 35-40mph. Isn't there an old saying about the darkest part of the night is just before dawn?

Anyway, you are right. Everyone drives 70-75 and slow pokes cause flow problems. Especially when they are illegally driving in the left lane of a 4 lane divided highway. Oh yea, they are mostly illegal immigrants who do this. It also causes road rage. I've witnessed it. Some folks insist on driving like they are in a Nascar race and will tailgate you within feet...Not me. I don't like guns pointed in my face. I do my best to drive with the flow and get out of the way of the Nascar people who want to drive 85mph.

There is a guy with a Prius who drives slow but I usually pass him about 1/4 of the way into my trip.

I like the Miata idea, also the Honda Fit. Just talked to my mom and she says my sister has already made her an offer for the Toyota car but might be willing to sell it to me instead of her.

Also like the audio book and audit class ideas. Right now I listen to a bunch of conservative talk radio and it keeps my blood pressure high enough..haha

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

What is your Mom going to do for a car if you buy her Corolla?

You couldn't find a Corolla with only 55k miles on it around here for $2,500.

Are you going to swap cars with your Mom because she doesn't drive much so the MPG isn't as important to her as it is to you?

My sister has offered her a swap deal with her brand new Hyundai Sonata for a cheap price. Maybe I should buy the Sonata from her, and let her get the Corolla cheap. She wants the corolla for her daughter and she wants something sportier for herself.

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Considering your location and relatively good weather, try a different angle: Try a used Mazda Miata. They are light, handle great, the older ones have a 1.8l engine. I think it will be an improvement over what you have for not too much money.

Newer stuff gets into Honda Fit (Honda always has the best motors), there is the small Nissan (Versa ?), the Hyundai Accent starting at $10k and the new Elantra is a good looking vehicle for less that anything from GM.

My wife and I bought the 2009 Jetta Tdi and average over 41mpg, with lower speed (55mph zones) running over 50mpg on longer drives. I do have to say that the quality and comfort of the latest generation of Jettas is substantially degraded from the previous generation vehicle. The front seats are hard, too narrow and strongly biased toward the transmission tunnel (probably for crash test ratings) so that long trips are a pain. I personally find that when I drive, my left thigh is on top of the seat bolster, and that hurts after 2-3 hours. Shorter trips not so bad. We had a 2001 model Audi which we traded for the Jetta and could go 6 hours in that with no problem with blood circulation and numb feet....

The VW engineers also built an overly wide center console and a ridiculous switch/mirror control/grab handle into the drivers door all of which have quite sharp edges which bruise your calf/knee area over long drives (just did nearly 1600 miles to florida).

I mention these things only because they will not jump out at you during a brief test drive. The car otherwise is great. Great mileage, quiet in operation, responsive at sea level or at altitude with the common rail injection and VNT turbo system. Just designed for midgets... Keep in mind that a fuel efficient car is an up front investment. Don't expect fuel to be getting cheaper any time soon. The only reason it came down recently was because a lot of people across the world saw a vast change in their economic circumstances, many for the rest of their lives.

Thanks for tips! I can say that for the Impala's, I had a new body style '06 for a company car and the seats were much improved over the decent seats in my '03.