Cold diesel hard to start

tallyho8 · Feb 3, 2007

My old IH 364 diesel is a little hard to start in the morning, Summer or Winter.
In Summer I have to leave the thermostart on about 30 seconds and in 50 degree weather about 1 to 1 /2 minutes. After it starts it runs very well and starts very easy when warm. I got it used and had it 12 years and put about 2000 hours on it and I have never cleaned the injectors or done anything except replace the fan belt and change oil and filters. I know the rings are pretty worn lowering the compression a little. The amp guage goes way down when I hit the thermostart which leads me to believe that the glow plugs are working. Any ideas of why I have to use the thermostart so long before it starts?

GATOR445 · Feb 4, 2007

Things to check
1. valve adjustment

2. test injectors- take to dealer or diesel eng. shop they should have a tester to test spray pattern and opening psi.

3. do compression test and leak down test - do this afer you adjust the valve if compression test is ok (with in oem specs.) life is good. if not do leak down test to see if valve are not sealing or rings are worn.

4. after doing first three, if injection timing is correct. you will probaly have to pull injection pump an send it to be rebuilt.

hope this helps.

BTDT · Feb 4, 2007

New battery?? When your cranking engine over, is it turning fast or slow?

tallyho8 · Feb 4, 2007

I have a very good battery that is pretty new. I need a good one to run the glow plugs that long and crank it that long too. I have a feeling that it is a combination of things, that everything has a lot of wear on it, and the combination makes it hard to start. What surprises me is that it runs so nice and smooth when it is running.

I was hoping I could find one magic solution that would make it start easier when cold.
I know it probably needs new rings. But while you have the pistons out, you need to replace the rod bearings too. And then while the head is off it needs to be rebuilt and get the injectors rebuilt and new glow plugs. Then the injection pump probably needs to be rebuilt and my hydraulic pump has been needing a rebuilding. And I know my clutch is pretty worn by now. And while I'm at it I might as well fix all the leaking seals and hoses. It seems like once you start on one you can't stop and soon it costs more than getting a new tractor.
My little Yanmar has me spoiled because it always start the instant I hit the starter and I have never used the thermostart since I got it 5 years ago. But I need my IH for the big jobs my Yannie can't do.
If I can't find that one little "magic fix" to make it start easier in the morning, then I guess I'll just keep a new battery in it and wake up 5 minutes earlier for the next 12 years and I'll keep parking it in that same oily spot every night. (at least the grass doesn't grow up around it)

whitetiger · Feb 4, 2007

You can spend a lot of money trying to get it to start better, but in the end it will not help much. It has a low compression indirect injection engine and that is about the same way it started when it was new.

cp1969 · Feb 4, 2007

A block heater (or lower radiator hose heater) might do you a lot of good. They run off house current so they don't tax your battery.

Low compression is probably the problem. Low compression means less heat to light the fuel when it is injected. A cold block and head acts as a big heat sink and pulls out a lot of the heat put in the cylinder air by compression. A block/coolant heater will help that. Also, you can stick a heat gun blowing hot air into the engine's intake. That is essentially what your thermostart (glow plug) thing is doing. Using a heat gun will raise the temp of the air that much more.

The reason why it starts so much better warm is that the block/head are adding heat to the air in the cylinders, not taking it away. And the rings have oil on them and seal better, giving better compression.

zzvyb6 · Feb 4, 2007

You didn't mention the type and age of Diesel fuel you are using. I'd try to make sure you are using "real" Diesel fuel, not kerosene, or a summer or a winter blend of fuel. Pull the pre and main filters. Look for water. If you've been adding water cleaners to the fuel, time to drain the whole system.
You said it starts hard in summer, too, so its not a heating issue. Check injector pressures, the pump may be worn down and its time to crank it up a notch to get enough atomization. I presume there is enough cranking rpm, and compression is reasonable, so its my bet that it's a fuel or fuel delivery problem.

Giles Gurley · Feb 4, 2007

I also have a IH364. I live in North West Alabama and in 50 degree weather and above I don"t use the glow plugs. In 40 degrees or lower I heat the plugs for about one minute and she fires right up. You can check the plugs by "CAREFULLY" touching them after about a minute of use. They should be "HOT" to the touch. Power goes to the rear plug and then to the others. Check the front one and if it is not hot, check and clean all connections. I had to do this with mine as only the two rear plugs were working. I would do all the little things before considering a rebuild of the engine.

cp1969 · Feb 4, 2007

zzvyb6 said:
You didn't mention the type and age of Diesel fuel you are using. I'd try to make sure you are using "real" Diesel fuel, not kerosene, or a summer or a winter blend of fuel. Pull the pre and main filters. Look for water. If you've been adding water cleaners to the fuel, time to drain the whole system.
You said it starts hard in summer, too, so its not a heating issue. Check injector pressures, the pump may be worn down and its time to crank it up a notch to get enough atomization. I presume there is enough cranking rpm, and compression is reasonable, so its my bet that it's a fuel or fuel delivery problem.

Mmmmmm....gotta disagree with you on that one. If an engine won't start without pre-heat in the summer, it is for sure going to be hard to start in winter. That does make it a heating issue.

tallyho8 · Feb 4, 2007

Thanks for your replies everyone.

It definitely starts easier in the summer. If it has been in the 90s a few hours it will start without preheat. 75 to 90 degrees I have to preheat about 30 seconds. 40 to 75, must preheat 1 minute or longer, maybe 2 times. Below 40, use Yanmar. I park it under a drop shed. I may move it closer to an electric outlet so I can try a heat gun in the intake.

Giles
It's nice to hear from someone with a 364. They are rare around here. Glad to hear yours will start at 50 with no preheat. Though mine seems to crank over ok, even with a new battery the starter does not turn the motor over as fast as a Ford pick-up. It sounds more like an old 6 volt car when it is cranking. Does your starter sound a little slower like that too or does it turn over as fast as new cars?