Anonymous Poster
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I have a TC29 hydrostat drive. It has a clutch pedal on the left. What does this pedal do? Does it control an actual clutch or a hydraulic valve?
Clutch pedal on hydrostat
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Bird
Rest in Peace
Danny, if I remember right, you've had it enough to be familiar with using it, i.e., have to have it depressed to start the engine, use it to engage the PTO, etc. So the simple answer to your question is, yes, it is an actual clutch.
Bird
Bird
jgh
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8/17
You are wrong*, TangerineTractorBreath!
For once /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
[warning, bad puns and more feigned insults follow]
Actually I was only enlightened today. Why until then I was as ignorant and stupid as the rest of you on this depressing and heavy [footed] subject. Now I can hit the mat and pedal my superiority to all you people with inferior if identical tractors...
my wife says I should not stay up this late.../w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif
In my continuing self-diagnosis on my TN90F, I tested the clutch completely. It has a nice heavy spring to make you think so but no mechanical connection whatsoever to the drive train. It has a potentiometer that reads how far the operator has depressed the "clutch" and a compound single throw switch** that clicks closed/open with 2 parts, one NO, one NC, in the last 10% or so of its travel.
Service manager confirms, it could simply be a button on the dashboard. But (and I kid you not) he said that people pushing their left foot into nothing continuously could be a problem. Must be a Bedford thing.
But waddah be the fun in that?
J
*Oh, and it could be different on non-hydraulically clutchpaked tractors. IE, non-power shuttle/GST or HST. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
**I believe the switch is only for the ignition interlock.
You are wrong*, TangerineTractorBreath!
For once /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
[warning, bad puns and more feigned insults follow]
Actually I was only enlightened today. Why until then I was as ignorant and stupid as the rest of you on this depressing and heavy [footed] subject. Now I can hit the mat and pedal my superiority to all you people with inferior if identical tractors...
my wife says I should not stay up this late.../w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif
In my continuing self-diagnosis on my TN90F, I tested the clutch completely. It has a nice heavy spring to make you think so but no mechanical connection whatsoever to the drive train. It has a potentiometer that reads how far the operator has depressed the "clutch" and a compound single throw switch** that clicks closed/open with 2 parts, one NO, one NC, in the last 10% or so of its travel.
Service manager confirms, it could simply be a button on the dashboard. But (and I kid you not) he said that people pushing their left foot into nothing continuously could be a problem. Must be a Bedford thing.
But waddah be the fun in that?
J
*Oh, and it could be different on non-hydraulically clutchpaked tractors. IE, non-power shuttle/GST or HST. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
**I believe the switch is only for the ignition interlock.
PBMAX
Platinum Member
jgh,cool to know and I suppose we shouldn't be supprised...That being the case I'd rather have the button on the dash and shift the hst pedal to the left in its place to free up the right foot just incase you would like to brake-steer...ya never know when it could be handy...Even given the tight turning radius ya'll keep talking about ( have only played seriously on a L3010 I rented for 2 days liked being able to brake steer in tight places)I did test drive the B2400 and it would let you brake steer in cruse,only killing the cruse if both brakes were pressed together(way to go Kubota)but the TC21D would would always kill the cruse when the left brake was applied/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif...you can brake steer to the right though,Silly set up...Maybe they figure it would help sell super steer...
Lil' Paul
Laziness is the Father of invention.../w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
Lil' Paul
Laziness is the Father of invention.../w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
Bird
Rest in Peace
jgh, I guess I'm the "tangerine tractorbreath" you say is wrong (and it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong), and maybe your blue tractor is different, but my shop and parts manual even show a picture of the "clutch disk" and "pressure plate" that sure look just like the ones I've taken out of manual transmission cars and trucks.
But I'm glad you know better./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
Bird
But I'm glad you know better./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
Bird
W5FL
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Hi Danny,
There are two things that the design engineer had to figure out with your tractor. One was how to transmit the engine power to the rear (and) front wheels. The other was how to get the PTO to turn only when you wanted it to turn.
On Kubota's (and most other tractors)they use a clutch to engage/disengage the pto. Some are mechanical foot operated and some are lever operated, but to have an independent pto, you have to be able to engage the pto independent of the drive train motion. If you cannot, then the PTO must turn at ground speed.
With many tractors, the clutch disengages both the drive train and pto (non-independent pto). Some gear drive tractors use a two position clutch to disengage the pto before disengaging the drive train.
There are two things that the design engineer had to figure out with your tractor. One was how to transmit the engine power to the rear (and) front wheels. The other was how to get the PTO to turn only when you wanted it to turn.
On Kubota's (and most other tractors)they use a clutch to engage/disengage the pto. Some are mechanical foot operated and some are lever operated, but to have an independent pto, you have to be able to engage the pto independent of the drive train motion. If you cannot, then the PTO must turn at ground speed.
With many tractors, the clutch disengages both the drive train and pto (non-independent pto). Some gear drive tractors use a two position clutch to disengage the pto before disengaging the drive train.
jgh
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8/23
To the clutch of enthusiasts who are interested in pressing their knowledge and powerful interruptions, a clarification follows:
I read the original ? as whether the guy's machine had an actual clutch or a hydraulic valve, not whether or not he had a clutch.
Come on fellows, of course he has a clutch, even an automotive AT has a clutch, even if it is automatic. HST's certainly must have a clutch. What I said, perhaps badly since I was ribbing Bird so hard after he plugged Danny, was that the clutch in my and most newer tractors could be a dash switch instead of a pedal. It is only connected to a switch which controls hydraulics in tractors except the most old fashioned collar shifters. Fact is that the spring you are pushing against is only to keep people from jamming their feet into the floorboards too hard (no lie, that is straight from a service manager).
In the older days some long while back in the distant past of history that came before us, pushing the clutch actually moved the pressure plates directly, etc. Not anymore for the most part.
Now correct me if I am wrong, but be prepared to "show me".
/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
J
To the clutch of enthusiasts who are interested in pressing their knowledge and powerful interruptions, a clarification follows:
I read the original ? as whether the guy's machine had an actual clutch or a hydraulic valve, not whether or not he had a clutch.
Come on fellows, of course he has a clutch, even an automotive AT has a clutch, even if it is automatic. HST's certainly must have a clutch. What I said, perhaps badly since I was ribbing Bird so hard after he plugged Danny, was that the clutch in my and most newer tractors could be a dash switch instead of a pedal. It is only connected to a switch which controls hydraulics in tractors except the most old fashioned collar shifters. Fact is that the spring you are pushing against is only to keep people from jamming their feet into the floorboards too hard (no lie, that is straight from a service manager).
In the older days some long while back in the distant past of history that came before us, pushing the clutch actually moved the pressure plates directly, etc. Not anymore for the most part.
Now correct me if I am wrong, but be prepared to "show me".
/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
J
Bird
Rest in Peace
jgh, I know there have been hydraulic assists on clutches for a long time on some vehicles, and you may be right when you say pushing the clutch pedal doesn't actually move the pressure plate directly "for the most part", but I do believe it does on my B2710. I don't know of any way to "show" you on here, but if you get a chance to see a shop manual and parts manual for the B2710, you'll see what I mean (springs, release fork, pressure plate, rod, etc.). And if I said something to make anyone think I "plugged Danny", I'm sure sorry because there was no intent to do anything other than answer his question.
Bird
Bird
W5FL
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Interesting jgh,
"In the older days some long while back in the distant past of history that came before us, pushing the clutch actually moved the pressure plates directly, etc. Not anymore for the most part."
My tractor ( Kubota M6800SD)has a sync transmission and shuttle (gear transmission) and the clutch pedal is connected by a lever to the real clutch and pressure plate. (no potentiometer on this tractor). The pto clutch is wet hydraulically actuated clutch with a mechanical lever. The rear differential lock is a mechanical lever and the front differential lock is a mechanical cable. Yes, I have the shop manual.
NH obviously has taken a different approach on a lot of things in their recent designs. Change sometimes is better and sometimes it is worse. Time will tell.
"In the older days some long while back in the distant past of history that came before us, pushing the clutch actually moved the pressure plates directly, etc. Not anymore for the most part."
My tractor ( Kubota M6800SD)has a sync transmission and shuttle (gear transmission) and the clutch pedal is connected by a lever to the real clutch and pressure plate. (no potentiometer on this tractor). The pto clutch is wet hydraulically actuated clutch with a mechanical lever. The rear differential lock is a mechanical lever and the front differential lock is a mechanical cable. Yes, I have the shop manual.
NH obviously has taken a different approach on a lot of things in their recent designs. Change sometimes is better and sometimes it is worse. Time will tell.
OP
Anonymous Poster
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TN 90F tractor facts
Your TN tractor is completely different from the TC's under discussion here. Danny's TC has a conventional clutch. One purpose is to control the PTO, which has a collar-shift engagemant, requiring a separate clutch. Your TN90 is built in a different hemisphere, with a dedicated PTO clutch. TN's are not offered with the hydrostatic transmission. Yours apparently has the PowerShuttle transmission, which is a computer-controlled partial-powershift transmission with wet clutch packs & one hydraulically shifted synchronizer. A button on the dash would suffice to replace the pedal switch at the bottom of your clutch pedal stroke, but without the potentiometer, you would be unable to feather the engagement of the F or R clutchpack as is possible in a properly calibrated TN transmission.
Your TN tractor is completely different from the TC's under discussion here. Danny's TC has a conventional clutch. One purpose is to control the PTO, which has a collar-shift engagemant, requiring a separate clutch. Your TN90 is built in a different hemisphere, with a dedicated PTO clutch. TN's are not offered with the hydrostatic transmission. Yours apparently has the PowerShuttle transmission, which is a computer-controlled partial-powershift transmission with wet clutch packs & one hydraulically shifted synchronizer. A button on the dash would suffice to replace the pedal switch at the bottom of your clutch pedal stroke, but without the potentiometer, you would be unable to feather the engagement of the F or R clutchpack as is possible in a properly calibrated TN transmission.
jgh
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Re: TN 90F tractor facts
9/15
[Hmmm, RickB's level of discourse is pretty impressive, unregistered though he is. Could he be a...DEALER /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif? Hope so because we need more of those guys on here].
Who said the thread was dead?
The nfo I gathered before answering the clutch question (and long ago, sorry if my recollections are hazy) indicated that most newer tractors, NH and others, are moving toward the more electrical than mechanical clutch arrangement. Hemispheres (don't you like Italian machinery /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif?) and Ag vs compact issues aside, a recent conversation with the area NH service rep reinforced that general impression. But I may have misunderstood and he could have been only talking about Ag stuff. Specifics I leave to the bettah infawmed like RickB (Dealer! Dealer! Dealer! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif).
Obviously I am no tractor tech expert, and neither are most of the folks on here. We're just a higher breed of users (esp those PE's amongst us) with a lot of curiosity. And many have a great deal of experience, very impressive. So it is interesting to hear more about what is going on with technology. Some of it has or will make our tractors more useful and reliable. Some of it, I'm not sure about, esp that driven by cost pressures rather than a desire for improvement.
Yesterday my wife & I visited "Field Day of the Past", held every year in my county, see the rudimentary page on it
http://members.aol.com/Past29643/index.html/
I would estimate the total crowd at thousands. Much we saw was antique stuff, steam engines, old sawmill demos, antique tractors, etc, but almost every area heavy equipment dealer was there, too (Cat, JD, Bobcat, NH, Case, Link-Belt and more), a feast for young and old alike.
At the Britain-based JCB dealer's "pavillion", there was an impressive display of "backhoe dancing" by their factory guy. He made an 8 ton TLB look like a trained elephant and did everything but turn it upside down (hmmm, our Del could have helped him with that /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif.
While hanging out there, I looked at a small construction backhoe (only 52 grand). The thing had four wheel articulated steering (like the later Z cars from Nissan), too. Tres-/w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif
And a side-shifting 12 ft digging, chest thumping...hoe, and a loader that could lift another backhoe, etc, etc [tim taylor sounds].../w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif....
Guess what it has on the gearshift lever? A clutch BUTTON /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif. Nothing on the floor, just press that button while moving the shifter and you're good to go from gear to gear with brother Perkins.
Small world. And a big thanks to RickB for contributing (one of many to come, I hope),
Jim
9/15
[Hmmm, RickB's level of discourse is pretty impressive, unregistered though he is. Could he be a...DEALER /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif? Hope so because we need more of those guys on here].
Who said the thread was dead?
The nfo I gathered before answering the clutch question (and long ago, sorry if my recollections are hazy) indicated that most newer tractors, NH and others, are moving toward the more electrical than mechanical clutch arrangement. Hemispheres (don't you like Italian machinery /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif?) and Ag vs compact issues aside, a recent conversation with the area NH service rep reinforced that general impression. But I may have misunderstood and he could have been only talking about Ag stuff. Specifics I leave to the bettah infawmed like RickB (Dealer! Dealer! Dealer! /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif).
Obviously I am no tractor tech expert, and neither are most of the folks on here. We're just a higher breed of users (esp those PE's amongst us) with a lot of curiosity. And many have a great deal of experience, very impressive. So it is interesting to hear more about what is going on with technology. Some of it has or will make our tractors more useful and reliable. Some of it, I'm not sure about, esp that driven by cost pressures rather than a desire for improvement.
Yesterday my wife & I visited "Field Day of the Past", held every year in my county, see the rudimentary page on it
http://members.aol.com/Past29643/index.html/
I would estimate the total crowd at thousands. Much we saw was antique stuff, steam engines, old sawmill demos, antique tractors, etc, but almost every area heavy equipment dealer was there, too (Cat, JD, Bobcat, NH, Case, Link-Belt and more), a feast for young and old alike.
At the Britain-based JCB dealer's "pavillion", there was an impressive display of "backhoe dancing" by their factory guy. He made an 8 ton TLB look like a trained elephant and did everything but turn it upside down (hmmm, our Del could have helped him with that /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif.
While hanging out there, I looked at a small construction backhoe (only 52 grand). The thing had four wheel articulated steering (like the later Z cars from Nissan), too. Tres-/w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif
And a side-shifting 12 ft digging, chest thumping...hoe, and a loader that could lift another backhoe, etc, etc [tim taylor sounds].../w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif/w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif....
Guess what it has on the gearshift lever? A clutch BUTTON /w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif. Nothing on the floor, just press that button while moving the shifter and you're good to go from gear to gear with brother Perkins.
Small world. And a big thanks to RickB for contributing (one of many to come, I hope),
Jim
