Close call with sink hole

[Jeff244]

Phil or fill?

 

[LBrown59]

You might need to get Phil!

Phil Who ? ............. [/

 

[Jeff244]

Matt is

 

[Nasty135]

Jeff, When we first bought our property we noticed it had a very gradule slope to the rear and even less of a slope to the left facing the rear.
Anyhow not every year but more frequent than not when spring arrives this lower area gets wet from the ground up. It starts to flow and feeds the large pond at the end of the property. It is the high water table from underground spring thaw I suppose but it lasts until June most times it comes, you can't even mow it because its too sloppy.
All that to say We have experienced open holes on our land but much smaller than yours and ours are in a straight line caused by the underground stream that flows along this line until it opens up to the open stream feeding the pond. They are only about three feet deep.

Your open hole looks different to me being larger than what we have, Unless you have a very large underground aquifer much lower in the ground...Or it is an old mine of some kind as mentioned, which makes more sense..
Which ever it is , It is very interesting and gives reason for concern.

Keep us posted , and don't go investigating unnessessarily

 

[polo1665]

Jeff,
When we first bought our property here in Ohio I found out about something that I had not heard of before. Ohio actually has counties where it is mandatory to buy insurance against mine collapse. This insurance is called "Mine Subsidence Insurance" and it costs $1.00 per year in the mandatory counties. If you elect to purchase it in non-mandatory counties it costs $5.00 per year. This may be something you want to look into to see if it is available in your state. It's purchased along with your home owners policy if I remember correctly. Not much to pay for a little piece of mind if your home could be affected.

Mark

 

[LBrown59]

Jeff,
When we first bought our property here in Ohio I found out about something that I had not heard of before. Ohio actually has counties where it is mandatory to buy insurance against mine collapse. This insurance is called "Mine Subsidence Insurance" and it costs $1.00 per year in the mandatory counties. If you elect to purchase it in non-mandatory counties it costs $5.00 per year. This may be something you want to look into to see if it is available in your state. It's purchased along with your home owners policy if I remember correctly. Not much to pay for a little piece of mind if your home could be affected.

Mark

I've been paying it for years here in Washington county

polo1665
A little side note:
How far are you from East Canton?
I have a cousin that lives right in East Canton.
Was up visiting her a week or so ago.

 

[Jeff244]

Nasty,
I was searching on the internet (it knows everything) and I found a site that does show the area to be a site of an old mine. I am still waiting for the DNR to call and come out and look at it. It would be very helpful if a map of the mine existed so I would know how far to stay away from it.

Mark,
I've never heard of that kind of insurance, that would be great if it was available here, will call the insurance agent. The bad thing is that since the hole already exists I bet they wouldn't cover it. (another play on words?)

Jeff

 

[LBrown59]

Nasty,
I was searching on the internet (it knows everything) and I found a site that does show the area to be a site of an old mine. I am still waiting for the DNR to call and come out and look at it. It would be very helpful if a map of the mine existed so I would know how far to stay away from it.

Mark,
I've never heard of that kind of insurance, that would be great if it was available here, will call the insurance agent. The bad thing is that since the hole already exists I bet they wouldn't cover it. (another play on words?)

Jeff

It should because that is what it's for.
They know these things exist that's why the need for the insurance to protect you from damages caused by them.
L B

 

[John47]

If that is an old coalmine, keep out!! Chances are it's full of "blackdamp"! Blackdamp is "lack of oxygen, it's a mixture of Nitrogen and Carbon dioxide and will put you out in seconds for good!
I spent most of my life working in one sort of a mine or other and have seen blackdamp many times in working coal mines. It's scary when you see the flame of a flame safety lamp start dropping due to lack of oxygen!!
So keep out for your own safety!!

 

[polo1665]

Jeff,
The insurance here in ohio covers the main dwelling only and then a maximum payout of $50,000. If Illinois has this insurance available the coverage may vary.
If a sink hole opened on my property here in Ohio I would start to worry where the next one was coming. Hopefully not near the house.

 

[polo1665]

LBrown,
I live about 15 miles east of East Canton. Between the towns of Minerva and Malvern.

 

[LBrown59]

LBrown,
I live about 15 miles east of East Canton. Between the towns of Minerva and Malvern.

I have another cousin that lives in Louisville and another one in Poland.
Years ago I had some relivates in Minerva.
There is a whole family of about 7 or 8 Browns in the area we are talking about that are cousins of mine but i don't know where they live .
L B

 

[KubotainNH]

Nice pictures, you could explore your land for years and still not see everything. I need to move and buy land

Good luck on the sink hole.

 

[Kernopelli]

Jeff, interesting pics. I have lived in the Carterville, Il (Williamson County) area all my life and have seen tons of sink holes through the years. The problem in my area is from the coal mines. The old maps are not always very useful because there was such lax regulation in the early 1900's and many shafts and holes were sunk that were never documented. My old neighbor had a number of them open up on his property in the last 20 years. The maps show it was never undermined . Luckily, my old place apparently sat on a big pillar or was just off the edge of the mine.
You mentioned Fluorspar, so you must be down in Hardin, Pope, Alexander area? Not too familiar with how they mined down there but I work for the state at Vienna and a lot of my fellow workers are old "spar" miners.
I was deer hunting down in Alexander some years back and wandered across an old silica mine. I went back in as far as I dared with a flashlight and it was nothing short of incredible. HUGE open rooms were mined out with domed roofs and concave pillars about 50' in diameter spaced symmetrically. Very cool.

My neighbor did have very good luck dealing with IDNR, BTW. I remember one particular hole they dumped riff raff and untold numbers of cement loads into for two solid days, but they picked up the tab.
Good luck and let us know what develops.

 

[Kernopelli]

Jeff, I just googled Hicks Dome to see about where you're at and Wikipedia had this:

"Hicks Dome (37.53139ｰ N 88.36833ｰ W) is an interesting geological feature in Hardin County. Some believe the dome may be related to an ancient meteor or comet impact, a part of the 38th parallel structures, a string of geological features running to Kansas. Some believe this to be a string of impact craters from a body that broke apart prior to hitting the earth.[citation needed] The Hicks Dome is underlain by ultramafic igneous rocks and igneous diatremes or breccia pipes. Most geologists currently accept the theory that the older rocks at the center of the uplift are related to this deep seated igneous activity. This igneous activity may have also provided the fluorine for the fluorspar deposits in this region.

Fluorspar, or calcium fluoride, was mined in Hardin County until the early 1990s.

 

[Jeff244]

John47
Re: Close call with sink hole
If that is an old coalmine, keep out!! Chances are it's full of "blackdamp"! Blackdamp is "lack of oxygen, it's a mixture of Nitrogen and Carbon dioxide and will put you out in seconds for good!
I spent most of my life working in one sort of a mine or other and have seen blackdamp many times in working coal mines. It's scary when you see the flame of a flame safety lamp start dropping due to lack of oxygen!!
So keep out for your own safety!!

That's some scary stuff. I'm pretty sure that it's not a coal mine although there are some in the area. I am about 99% sure that it's an old flourspar mine. Also, I have no plans to go in it again.

polo1665
Re: Close call with sink hole
Jeff,
The insurance here in ohio covers the main dwelling only and then a maximum payout of $50,000. If Illinois has this insurance available the coverage may vary.
If a sink hole opened on my property here in Ohio I would start to worry where the next one was coming. Hopefully not near the house.

I will be checking to see if Illinois has a similar program although the sink hole is quite a distance from our house.

KubotainNH
Re: Close call with sink hole
Nice pictures, you could explore your land for years and still not see everything. I need to move and buy land

Good luck on the sink hole.

We've lived here about a year and I really haven't done much exploring until the last few weeks, partly because of the ticks and chiggers. But I started treating my clothes with permethrin and I don't have a problem with them anymore. I spent my entire life in the Chicago area so this is all new to me and I love it.

Kernopelli
Re: Close call with sink hole
Jeff, I just googled Hicks Dome to see about where you're at and Wikipedia had this:

"Hicks Dome (37.53139ｰ N 88.36833ｰ W) is an interesting geological feature in Hardin County. Some believe the dome may be related to an ancient meteor or comet impact, a part of the 38th parallel structures, a string of geological features running to Kansas. Some believe this to be a string of impact craters from a body that broke apart prior to hitting the earth.[citation needed] The Hicks Dome is underlain by ultramafic igneous rocks and igneous diatremes or breccia pipes. Most geologists currently accept the theory that the older rocks at the center of the uplift are related to this deep seated igneous activity. This igneous activity may have also provided the fluorine for the fluorspar deposits in this region.

Fluorspar, or calcium fluoride, was mined in Hardin County until the early 1990s.
Yesterday 06:35 PM
Kernopelli
Re: Close call with sink hole
Jeff, interesting pics. I have lived in the Carterville, Il (Williamson County) area all my life and have seen tons of sink holes through the years. The problem in my area is from the coal mines. The old maps are not always very useful because there was such lax regulation in the early 1900's and many shafts and holes were sunk that were never documented. My old neighbor had a number of them open up on his property in the last 20 years. The maps show it was never undermined . Luckily, my old place apparently sat on a big pillar or was just off the edge of the mine.
You mentioned Fluorspar, so you must be down in Hardin, Pope, Alexander area? Not too familiar with how they mined down there but I work for the state at Vienna and a lot of my fellow workers are old "spar" miners.
I was deer hunting down in Alexander some years back and wandered across an old silica mine. I went back in as far as I dared with a flashlight and it was nothing short of incredible. HUGE open rooms were mined out with domed roofs and concave pillars about 50' in diameter spaced symmetrically. Very cool.

My neighbor did have very good luck dealing with IDNR, BTW. I remember one particular hole they dumped riff raff and untold numbers of cement loads into for two solid days, but they picked up the tab.
Good luck and let us know what develops.

You're right, we do live in Hardin county. That mine sounds pretty cool. I'd be pretty nervous going that far into too.

Kernopelli
Re: Close call with sink hole
Jeff, I just googled Hicks Dome to see about where you're at and Wikipedia had this:

"Hicks Dome (37.53139ｰ N 88.36833ｰ W) is an interesting geological feature in Hardin County. Some believe the dome may be related to an ancient meteor or comet impact, a part of the 38th parallel structures, a string of geological features running to Kansas. Some believe this to be a string of impact craters from a body that broke apart prior to hitting the earth.[citation needed] The Hicks Dome is underlain by ultramafic igneous rocks and igneous diatremes or breccia pipes. Most geologists currently accept the theory that the older rocks at the center of the uplift are related to this deep seated igneous activity. This igneous activity may have also provided the fluorine for the fluorspar deposits in this region.

Fluorspar, or calcium fluoride, was mined in Hardin County until the early 1990s.

Interesting stuff. I've also read that it's the site of an old volcano that didn't reach the surface(maybe that's what your quote says). I've done some checking on the net also and that's why I'm about 99% sure that the sink hole is from an old flourspar mine. I found a link on google books that talks about it, the book was written in 1920 so it's definitely pretty old. It also mentions hitting some type of limestone at 50' but it doesn't mention the total depth or size of the mine. Since the book was probably written for geologists, I don't understand a lot of the info. There is a fluorite museum nearby that we plan to visit soon, maybe it has info on old mines in the area.

The DNR was supposed to contact us last week to come out and look at the sink hole, they never made it. Hopefully they will make it out this week.

Jeff

 

[Ronbo]

any new news?

Ron

 

[Jeff244]

Ron, no news yet. I think I will call the DNR again next week. They told me they would be calling last week and I haven't heard from them yet.

Jeff

 

[tjkadar]

The pic of you in the hole gave me the heebie jeebies. Sad part is, I would have been sorely tempted myself and I know better. We've run into some hard rock mines left over from the first gold rush. The biggest one is the old Dorn Gold Mine. The town of McCormick, SC literally sits on top of the mine. There are roughly 5 miles of tunnels and shafts running under the town. One of the tunnels is wide enough to drive a SUV into it. Others are barely big enough to squeeze through while standing more or less upright. Most of the tunnels are flooded and the locals have been using the shafts as garbage pits.

That was before the Civil War. Now, they prefer open pit mining.

Just had some folks head out this morning to look at the Haile Gold Mine. With the price of gold, it'll be worthwhile to open it back up.

 

[oscar80]

I used to cave dive that was a thrill. Some of the under water rooms were huge and it was the closest I will ever get to going into space.

Dave