Cleaning spark plugs

[adirondackmtnman]

Cleaning plugs/filing plugs ain't worth the hassle unless the piece just needs to get working for the short term.
A well running piece of machinery does not foul plugs. They run fine until the electrode is a waste.

So a 2 stroke engine, when tuned correctly, will burn the electrode completely before fouling the plug???

Sent from my LGL35G using TractorByNet

 

[rsallen]

Yeah, I've got a few.
I even run them a rich on the oil. And they all start easily and run fine. Never changed a plug yet, though a couple could probably stand new plugs next year as they got soaked down in fuel the last time I used them because their carbs wasn't doing the job properly.

 

[ruffdog]

Years back when I worked in a shop, people would ask me to just clean the plugs instead of replacing them just to save a few bucks. When I quoted them a HIGHER price to clean them, they wondered why. The reason why is the TIME to clean, times the shop rate, was MORE than the cost of new plugs. Funny, there was a guy that paid more to have us clean his plugs. (?????) It takes all kinds I guess!

 

[Soundguy]

Years back when I worked in a shop, people would ask me to just clean the plugs instead of replacing them just to save a few bucks. When I quoted them a HIGHER price to clean them, they wondered why. The reason why is the TIME to clean, times the shop rate, was MORE than the cost of new plugs. Funny, there was a guy that paid more to have us clean his plugs. (?????) It takes all kinds I guess!

i know some people that will clean a set of autolites before putting in a new champion.

 

[DJ54]

Back in the 80's, Champions needed to be cleaned after just a few hours of run time. Whatever they applied to the electrode as a protectant at the factory caused carbon build up, and they would foul. This came from a mechanic that serviced trucks for our local electric co-op, using Champions in their trucks, that was in our antique tractor club. He got on the phone to Champion to complain, and they told him to clean them, and it should eliminate the problem. Maybe a possibility it was a reaction to the unleaded fuel introduced in that era...?? None the less, after doing a blast clean they would run a good while without a problem.

Never had that problem when I used the Motorcraft or Autolites...

 

[Soundguy]

Back in the 80's, Champions needed to be cleaned after just a few hours of run time. Whatever they applied to the electrode as a protectant at the factory caused carbon build up, and they would foul. This came from a mechanic that serviced trucks for our local electric co-op, using Champions in their trucks, that was in our antique tractor club. He got on the phone to Champion to complain, and they told him to clean them, and it should eliminate the problem. Maybe a possibility it was a reaction to the unleaded fuel introduced in that era...?? None the less, after doing a blast clean they would run a good while without a problem.

Never had that problem when I used the Motorcraft or Autolites...

many of the antique sites I haunt.. the ford guys like .. for instance. an al437 vs a champ h12 and will drive out of their way to get such.

 

[daugen]

too bad we don't have someone who owns a tractor and works in a spark plug plant...
like we do with one member who works in an auto plant (the new Colorado truck) and the other member who
works for Harbor Freight. Would be interesting to know what specs are met, for what parameters.
If they can make a platinum tip that lasts at least one hundred thousand miles, then the rest of the plug has to last that long too, so
I'm thinking that trickle down tech here would improve all plugs over time. In other words, a cheap plug could still be a good plug. :confused3:
You don't have to track down an Autolite or a NGK, this Chinese Champion for $1.99 will do fine.

or will it.

Or will it shatter when I hit it with aluminum oxide?

I usually buy plugs in bulk, have enough engines with the same Honda plug or the B&S plug. So I hardly ever pay more than three bucks a plug, usually less.
That extra dollar, or even two in some machines, well, I think I'd rather spend it than wonder about two buck chuck.

 

[DarkBlack]

Cleaning plugs/filing plugs ain't worth the hassle unless the piece just needs to get working for the short term.
A well running piece of machinery does not foul plugs. They run fine until the electrode is a waste.

I agree. A new or clean plug will take on the existing combustion chamber "attributes" within a few minutes of running, and you are back to square one. Like I posted earlier, I never change or clean them- I must be lucky( except material erosion from excessive run hours ).
If you need to replace a plug, you should spend your time/money on the cause, not the symptom.

 

[PILOON]

Old aircraft like DC3's etc used platinum plugs, 2 per cylinder, 18 per engine.
Those scrapped plugs fetched good $'s as recycled material.
While I know recyclers buy catalytic converters for the platinum I wonder how many folks realize the value of newer style spark plugs?

 

[Soundguy]

I agree. A new or clean plug will take on the existing combustion chamber "attributes" within a few minutes of running, and you are back to square one. Like I posted earlier, I never change or clean them- I must be lucky( except material erosion from excessive run hours ).
If you need to replace a plug, you should spend your time/money on the cause, not the symptom.

it's cheaper to cle3an a plug once a year than to rebuild an engine that otherwise runs good but puts a lil carbon on a plug over a years time.

Not to mention the down time of the engine.. plus the antiquity of it. Some people actually ENJOY running antiques and keeping them original as long as possible.

 

[DJ54]

it's cheaper to cle3an a plug once a year than to rebuild an engine that otherwise runs good but puts a lil carbon on a plug over a years time.

Not to mention the down time of the engine.. plus the antiquity of it. Some people actually ENJOY running antiques and keeping them original as long as possible.

:thumbsup:

 

[daugen]

speaking of antiques, weren't the older plugs beefier and larger?
But I bet the insulator today is much tougher...

 

[DarkBlack]

Some people actually ENJOY running antiques and keeping them original as long as possible.

OK, related to oil burning antiques, I can see it. I was commenting on modern engines. I don't own any antiques, except my body.

 

[rsallen]

Antiques. What is considered antique?
Fuel today is considerably different than it was as little 10 years ago. And if one goes back as much as 40 or 50 years ago you'd hardly recognize it as the same product even by the smell. Are you using any additives to your fuel (hmm, like maybe a lead substitute?) or richened up the carb setting to help minimize the octane difference?

The same revolution has happened with the engine oils that has over taken the fuels.
Do you use any additives there? A while ago I read that some component had been removed from oils (aah I'm trying to remember) somewhere around the mid 80's (I think). I can't come close to remembering the acronym for it, but I remember it was a element that older engines didn't do well without enre to wear.

The reason I don't reuse spark plugs is that they don't ever perform up to snuff after. Particularly after continually being subjected to rich fuel mixtures or excessive oil deposits.
Porcelain is marvelous stuff, but it does absorb what surrounds it and becomes polluted.

 

[Bigkrank]

too bad we don't have someone who owns a tractor and works in a spark plug plant...
like we do with one member who works in an auto plant (the new Colorado truck) and the other member who
works for Harbor Freight.

I made spark plug shells and machinery to make them for 27 years. Also worked 10 miles away from an Autolite spark plug plant and 45 miles away from Champion plant. I didn't have anything to do with the porcelin or assembly though.

We hired a few Champion guys (dumb as box of rocks) when they closed here and currently work with an ex Autolite guy. I know the platinum comes in a Brinks truck and is stored in a vault. Made shells for AC Delco, Denso and Autolite Motorcraft, some years back the AC plugs were assembled at the Autolite plant. They were making more AC Delco plugs at the Autolite factory than Motorcraft for a while years ago. An awful lot of my friends and neighbors worked at the Autolite plant, it is still owned by Honeywell today but doesn't employ many people.

Still working on the machinery and making parts, 41 years now, just haven't made spark plug shells for awhile, still get offers to quote them now and then.

 

[Soundguy]

i consider antique tractors to be ones from mid 60's and older.. anything say.. 65+ is a classic.. till you hit the early 80's.. then it's just an old new tractor.

lead substitute? yuck. tetra ethyl lead was a good octane mod... plenty of ways to accomplish that.. heck.. ethanol is an octane mod.

Most of the oldies I work on left the vaftory with hardened valve seats anyway..

Are you refering to zinc / ZDDP? hard to find it in a gas oil these days. that's why I run diesel / C rated oils that also carry a S rating. Less of an issue on low compression, low rpm flat tappet engines.. but more of an issue on a performance engine...

Antiques. What is considered antique?
Fuel today is considerably different than it was as little 10 years ago. And if one goes back as much as 40 or 50 years ago you'd hardly recognize it as the same product even by the smell. Are you using any additives to your fuel (hmm, like maybe a lead substitute?) or richened up the carb setting to help minimize the octane difference?

The same revolution has happened with the engine oils that has over taken the fuels.
Do you use any additives there? A while ago I read that some component had been removed from oils (aah I'm trying to remember) somewhere around the mid 80's (I think). I can't come close to remembering the acronym for it, but I remember it was a element that older engines didn't do well without enre to wear.

The reason I don't reuse spark plugs is that they don't ever perform up to snuff after. Particularly after continually being subjected to rich fuel mixtures or excessive oil deposits.
Porcelain is marvelous stuff, but it does absorb what surrounds it and becomes polluted.

 

[rsallen]

Yep, lots of ways to chemically accomplish a so called octane boost, but none have quite come up to the same base line as lead.
Over all I think it's good we've gotten rid of it but it's been a difficult hill for the fuel producers to equal what lead does.
Ethanol? Don't get me started on what I think of ethanol.

Shrug, I'm not telling anyone to do this or that about plugs only why I throw them away. Cleaning them reasonably properly won't hurt anything, I just think it's a waste of time messing about with them. In the time it takes to make sure the plugs are cleaned, filed and gapped you could have also had the points and timing set and no worries about weather or not you've got that one plug that has gotten just a little too polluted.
For my time, I'd spend what, at most, $12 a year?

 

[Soundguy]

i don't prefer the effects of ethanol on fuel.. however if we are going to use it. why corn. why not switchgrass.. it would be a better choice....

Yep, lots of ways to chemically accomplish a so called octane boost, but none have quite come up to the same base line as lead.
Over all I think it's good we've gotten rid of it but it's been a difficult hill for the fuel producers to equal what lead does.
Ethanol? Don't get me started on what I think of ethanol.

Shrug, I'm not telling anyone to do this or that about plugs only why I throw them away. Cleaning them reasonably properly won't hurt anything, I just think it's a waste of time messing about with them. In the time it takes to make sure the plugs are cleaned, filed and gapped you could have also had the points and timing set and no worries about weather or not you've got that one plug that has gotten just a little too polluted.
For my time, I'd spend what, at most, $12 a year?

 

[rsallen]

Heck why not hemp? Sugar cane?
But yeah, if we're going to use ethanol I like switch grass too.
Anything but a food product like corn.

 

[the old grind]

I haven't changed many spark plugs, but admit I'm a few k short of ever having gone 100k mi in a vehicle (carbureted, vs EFI on those, btw). Lead did as much for valve seat wear as for octane. The 'protective' residue could build up on insulators and cause them to arc out. Matters less now that t-e-lead is in fuel no more.

The stuff that took over when lead was removed left rust-colored deposits on piston crowns, valve faces/stems, and plug insulators. It did/does little to replace lead's wear reducing properties, and old gear may need something for that more than for higher octane.

Back in the '70s when I outgrew Hondas and could finally afford H-Ds I was cautioned that plugs would need to be replaced yearly or a bike wouldn't start/run well. I guess the 'heat of an air-cooled engine' would ruin them somehow, esp on the rear cyl. Oops! I still ride some I've had for 30+ years on the same pair of plugs. Not high on miles even yet, but sitting a lot. Not running smoothly? Do a compression check. Whether 'hi' or 'lo', cyls within +/- 10% of each other are usually ok. Maybe plugs then.

Reasons I actually did replace spark plugs: cracked insulator while removing it to inspect/clean, or bad guess as to what caused a miss. Plugs are over-sold anymore to keep us getting tuneups and the $$ coming in. (ECM 'tunes' twice/sec and fuel injection means cleaner burn once warmed up and in 'closed loop' vs 'open' or with a carb & choke) All too often plugs are replaced when plug wires are the problem. Maybe it's because plugs are cheaper, but folks may end up buying both when that happens. (If a 4, 6, 8 cyl doesn't fire at all, its not about spark plugs.)

Put me with Soundguy. I'll rotate plug sets rather than replace them. (looking in vain for symptoms?) Have never cleaned a plug with anything but a wire brush, and still working for me. Oil soaked 2-cycle plugs get tips heated over a gas burner if dirty/oily enough to not start well after sitting from last season/year. Getting away with it to this day, and some 'spares' I have for mower, chipper, chain saw, etc have price tags marked in cents vs dollars.

btw: Getting a hotter spark from some fancy new mat'l or tip design is kinda like thinking one 1500w electric heater will provide more heat than another. More about perception there than real science. An old-school attitude is that if a cylinder fires it's getting all the spark it can use. Could be a matter of faith that lets us go decades on the same set, tho' I'm not racing Ferraris, and it's been working for me too since the '60s. It's fuel/air that make power, not what lights it. IMO, arguments otherwise may be semantic at best.

Not all mfr's 'heat ranges' equate as nearly as the charts may indicate. In older machines one sometimes has to go 'hotter' to keep them from coking up, a trial & error thingie. 'When in doubt change 'em out', but IMO that doesn't mean an $8 vs $2 one is worth the diff if you do so regularly. YMMV, and flame suit is 'on'.