ck3510se weird regen issue

[NYCheese]

I've had the tractor a couple years now. When I first got it, I did a lot of backhoe work, at lower rpm's, and I got my first regen at only 18hrs. Ever since, I always run the tractor at higher rpms, no matter what I'm doing. I'll let it idle for a minute or two, to warm up when I start it, but after that, it stays at 2400rpm all the time.

Things have been normal, with regens happening every 30-40 hours, until the last couple weeks. I got one at 359hrs while mowing, 367 hours while mowing, and just again today at 370 hours with the hoe. These are the auto regens, never had the dash light for a parked one. They have all been allowed to run and complete, never pressed the button to delay it.

Is there something I'm not aware of that could be causing these last couple regens so quickly?

 

[BrkMstr]

My first review would be fuel / air / water contamination - carbon / dirt deposits, could be fouling the system causing the region correction - very doubtful you would have a serious issue with the regen with 370 hours - drain any water from fuel filter - loosen the vent on the fuel / air release hopefully it's something simple - next step for me would be checking carbon deposits / fuel injection nozzle basically eliminating any chance of fuel issues....

 

[rademamj1]

Regens at 8 hours and then decreasing to 3 hour intervals is something to be concerned, especially if it continues like that for the next 4 to 5 regen cycles. But right now you don't have a long enough history of short period regens. It may indeed return to normal at next regen period. Looks like your normal engine operation runs at high enough rpm to encourage the regenerations.

Typically if it continues at 3hrs or stays under 10 hours per regen for the next few months, then possible faulty injectors should be evaluated.

I assume your running quality diesel fuel in the tank. And that your operating with the original fuel filter already having been changed to a new one. I would recommend adding a diesel additive at the next fill up, that will help clean your injectors out.

 

[NYCheese]

I checked the fuel filter, no water in it. I did replace it at about 250hrs (I missed it in the manual for the 200hr mark). I don't know any specifics about the fuel I'm using, but I always go to the same place for it, everyone I know gets their diesel there, and nobody else is having issues that I'm aware of. I'll try some additive and see what that does, thanks!

 

[rademamj1]

Ok, just continue working with the tractor to gain more regen history. Hopefully, it all may correct itself. I would do the diesel injector cleaning additive anyway.

 

[BrkMstr]

In my opinion fuel causes more problems than any other issue - moisture builds quickly in the tanks and then comes bacteria followed by a host of issues - I use Power Service with / Cetane Boost - add it to the transfer tank when I fill it and will add some to the tractor tank at each fill up - I never put the the tractor away without filling the tank - New England like NY goes from humid to dry - cold to hot and moisture forms...... One of the Kioti service techs I know, tells all his customers if they want to prevent problems with the DPF add Cetane to the fuel.....

 

[NYCheese]

In my opinion fuel causes more problems than any other issue - moisture builds quickly in the tanks and then comes bacteria followed by a host of issues - I use Power Service with / Cetane Boost - add it to the transfer tank when I fill it and will add some to the tractor tank at each fill up - I never put the the tractor away without filling the tank - New England like NY goes from humid to dry - cold to hot and moisture forms...... One of the Kioti service techs I know, tells all his customers if they want to prevent problems with the DPF add Cetane to the fuel.....

Thanks for the product advice. I'll pick some up tomorrow. I don't have a transfer tank, I just use 5 gal cans, so I don't have fuel sitting around for very long. And this time of year, finishing up all my mowing and firewood, is when I put the most hours on it. In the last 30 days, I've put 40 gallons through it. I also just blew out the air filter....it wasn't dirty at all, but figured it couldn't hurt to check it. I'm just about due for the big 400hr service anyway, so I'm gonna call the dealer tomorrow and have him get me all the filters, a new fuel filter couldn't hurt, if this is potentially a fuel issue.

Thanks again!

 

[rademamj1]

In my opinion fuel causes more problems than any other issue - moisture builds quickly in the tanks and then comes bacteria followed by a host of issues - I use Power Service with / Cetane Boost - add it to the transfer tank when I fill it and will add some to the tractor tank at each fill up - I never put the the tractor away without filling the tank - New England like NY goes from humid to dry - cold to hot and moisture forms...... One of the Kioti service techs I know, tells all his customers if they want to prevent problems with the DPF add Cetane to the fuel.....

BrkMstr, your absolutely correct. The impact of increasing the centane boost on diesel engines is very positive, resulting in a more effecient burn, reducing unburned gases, overall reducing noxious emissions, and increasing engine temperatures. Increasing diesel centane does increase HP and torque.

Most companies that market diesel additives, actually combine both the diesel injector cleaners with a centane boost.

 

[Kioti Dave]

I've had the tractor a couple years now. When I first got it, I did a lot of backhoe work, at lower rpm's, and I got my first regen at only 18hrs. Ever since, I always run the tractor at higher rpms, no matter what I'm doing. I'll let it idle for a minute or two, to warm up when I start it, but after that, it stays at 2400rpm all the time.

Things have been normal, with regens happening every 30-40 hours, until the last couple weeks. I got one at 359hrs while mowing, 367 hours while mowing, and just again today at 370 hours with the hoe. These are the auto regens, never had the dash light for a parked one. They have all been allowed to run and complete, never pressed the button to delay it.

Is there something I'm not aware of that could be causing these last couple regens so quickly?

This same scenario happened with my NX4510. 30 to 40 hours between regens, then suddenly every 3 hours or so until limp mode. Was a bad injector and turbo leak.

 

[NYCheese]

So, I spoke with my dealer today. He claims he spoke with someone in NC, and they believe it's 1 of 2 possibilities.

First, He suggested that since I'm at 370hrs, and have never had a parked regen, it could just be getting due for one.
Second, he mentioned the sensor that's on the DPF canister, that senses the temperature of the exhaust gas....could be a bad sensor or an air leak there.

His contact at Kioti said to park it and force a parked regen. I just finished that a few minutes ago. I think it went right, took about 35 minutes to complete. It ran up to 2600rpm right away, stayed there for 15-20mins, then dropped to 1700ish rpm, for another 10-15 mins, then down to idle for just a few minutes. Right at the beginning, and again about 10 minutes into it, I thought the smell was a little more potent than the regular automatic regens, but no dramatic difference. No smoke of any kind.

Interestingly, he did say that they do NOT recommend using fuel additives in tier 4 engines at all. So maybe I'll hold off on doing that, until I see what happens next. (it's under warranty, so I don't want to create an issue there). The dealer said after the parked regen, just use like normal, and see if it triggers the auto regens at short intervals again. If it does, it'll likely have to go to the shop for more troubleshooting, and to check that sensor and air leaks.

 

[rademamj1]

Hopefully a parked regen has solved your problem, and it was good that you got a strong odor from the parked regen. Interesting comment on additives, my dealer recommends using fuel injector cleaners about every 3rd tank. Dealer concerns about diesel additives, change from dealer to dealer.

 

[BrkMstr]

I'm sorry the dealer told you not to use any additives - I obviously disagree, next time you speak with your dealer ask him how a Tier four engine can stop Diesel Fuel from Gelling and bacteria growth - Diesel has great value as well as creating some serious issues - for example without additives during the winter months you can easily find fuel turning to gel, a reputable fuel suppler will start adding the mixture as season dictates but you will still see your fair share of Tractor Trailers on the side of the road dead in their tracks, simply did not have enough additive in the fuel. Before you make up your mind do your own review - I've never met anyone that has had issues using PowerService additives, all that I know swear by them........ I certainly agree with what other advise he gave you, air leak, carbon was definitely on my list...

 

[MichiganIron]

I'm sorry the dealer told you not to use any additives - I obviously disagree, next time you speak with your dealer ask him how a Tier four engine can stop Diesel Fuel from Gelling and bacteria growth - Diesel has great value as well as creating some serious issues - for example without additives during the winter months you can easily find fuel turning to gel, a reputable fuel suppler will start adding the mixture as season dictates but you will still see your fair share of Tractor Trailers on the side of the road dead in their tracks, simply did not have enough additive in the fuel. Before you make up your mind do your own review - I've never met anyone that has had issues using PowerService additives, all that I know swear by them........ I certainly agree with what other advise he gave you, air leak, carbon was definitely on my list...

If you operate the tractor in an area where the temperatures fall below 35deg F for any extended period of time, you need to use an ant-gel additive to keep the tractor running in cold weather, especially with the Tier IV engines, due to the sensitivity of the fuel filters. We use the Power Service (white bottle) extensively in the winter, and can also say the Hot-Shots products work very well. KIOTI also offers it's own additive, "Polar D" that also works well to prevent gelling in cold weather.

Hope this helps..

 

[NYCheese]

I'm sorry the dealer told you not to use any additives - I obviously disagree, next time you speak with your dealer ask him how a Tier four engine can stop Diesel Fuel from Gelling and bacteria growth - Diesel has great value as well as creating some serious issues - for example without additives during the winter months you can easily find fuel turning to gel, a reputable fuel suppler will start adding the mixture as season dictates but you will still see your fair share of Tractor Trailers on the side of the road dead in their tracks, simply did not have enough additive in the fuel. Before you make up your mind do your own review - I've never met anyone that has had issues using PowerService additives, all that I know swear by them........ I certainly agree with what other advise he gave you, air leak, carbon was definitely on my list...

Yeah, I was a little surprised too. I know Power Service makes quality products, but like I said, it's a relatively new tractor, still under warranty, so I'm most likely going to stick with his instructions for now. I've put about 3 hours on the meter since I did the parked regen, and so far it hasn't triggered another one yet. So fingers crossed for now.

 

[NYCheese]

If you operate the tractor in an area where the temperatures fall below 35deg F for any extended period of time, you need to use an ant-gel additive to keep the tractor running in cold weather, especially with the Tier IV engines, due to the sensitivity of the fuel filters. We use the Power Service (white bottle) extensively in the winter, and can also say the Hot-Shots products work very well. KIOTI also offers it's own additive, "Polar D" that also works well to prevent gelling in cold weather.

Hope this helps..

Thank you for the info. I'll have to talk to my dealer about it again then. He specifically said that Kioti doesn't want additives used, but that doesn't sound right if they make their own additive. Either way, it gets plenty cold here in upstate NY, and I have not had any issues in my first 2 winters with the tractor, and I've used it in sub-zero temps.

 

[rademamj1]

Yes, for many years, Kioti sold XDP Polar D under their own Kioti name on the bottle. But I think the branding agreement between Kioti and XPD terminated in 2016 and just don't know if it was renewed. However, you can still purchase XDP Polar D for your diesel tractor, for winter time use.

 

[tallfreak]

So, I spoke with my dealer today. He claims he spoke with someone in NC, and they believe it's 1 of 2 possibilities.

First, He suggested that since I'm at 370hrs, and have never had a parked regen, it could just be getting due for one.
Second, he mentioned the sensor that's on the DPF canister, that senses the temperature of the exhaust gas....could be a bad sensor or an air leak there.

His contact at Kioti said to park it and force a parked regen. I just finished that a few minutes ago. I think it went right, took about 35 minutes to complete. It ran up to 2600rpm right away, stayed there for 15-20mins, then dropped to 1700ish rpm, for another 10-15 mins, then down to idle for just a few minutes. Right at the beginning, and again about 10 minutes into it, I thought the smell was a little more potent than the regular automatic regens, but no dramatic difference. No smoke of any kind.

Interestingly, he did say that they do NOT recommend using fuel additives in tier 4 engines at all. So maybe I'll hold off on doing that, until I see what happens next. (it's under warranty, so I don't want to create an issue there). The dealer said after the parked regen, just use like normal, and see if it triggers the auto regens at short intervals again. If it does, it'll likely have to go to the shop for more troubleshooting, and to check that sensor and air leaks.

I didn't know there was a difference in parked regen. Im at about 65 hours and just had my 2nd regen last night. First one at 27 hours. Last night was a little inconvenient as I was just using the forks to unload my trailer. Right as I was pulling back into the shop the light came on. I set the parking brake and thought I put it in neutral but it shut off when I got off because the shifter wasn't all the way in neutral. I started it back up and let it run at 2400 rpm. The light came back on after a few minutes and I let it run until it finished. It was about 20 minutes.

Should I do a parked regen occasionally? I didnt realize there was a difference.

 

[rademamj1]

If your working and the regen light comes on, this is an automatic regen, so just raise the rpm to 2300 and continue working normally. No need to park the tractor and wait 20 minutes. Just like yours, my tractor is on a 27 to 30 hour regen interval, and has been for the last 500 hours of ownership.

 

[tallfreak]

If your working and the regen light comes on, this is an automatic regen, so just raise the rpm to 2300 and continue working normally. No need to park the tractor and wait 20 minutes. Just like yours, my tractor is on a 27 to 30 hour regen interval, and has been for the last 500 hours of ownership.

I know I can continue working but I was done with the tractor and dinner was ready. I just didn't know if I should occasionally force a parked regen.

I have noticed lately it has sounded different. Sounds more knocky under heavy load than it normally does. Maybe thats a sign of an upcoming regen? I won't know until this weekend if it made a difference.

 

[NYCheese]

If your working and the regen light comes on, this is an automatic regen, so just raise the rpm to 2300 and continue working normally. No need to park the tractor and wait 20 minutes. Just like yours, my tractor is on a 27 to 30 hour regen interval, and has been for the last 500 hours of ownership.

In that 500 hours, has your tractor ever made you do a parked regen?

I'm just shy of 400hrs on mine, and have had fairly regular intervals until now, often in the 35-40hr range. I've only put about 10 hours on it since the parked regen, and so far it hasn't done another short auto regen yet, keeping my fingers crossed.