CK30 Running Rough, No Power, No Start

[Fuggley]

The tractor started acting up after I had a good day plowing, parked & shut off the tractor and then did a quick restart to move the tractor a few feet to better position it in the garage. It started acting up ever since. Oh oh!.... sounds like another case of the infamous Kioti injector failure problem right?

After doing some checks and researching the many excellent posts on this site regarding fuel injection issues, I think have found something interesting to share and get forum opinion on. Here is a pic I've borrowed from BTWARD79 (...thanks BT) from his post 08-26-2012 that shows the throttle and governor arms that are properly spring connected in the area below the injector pump.



Below are pics taken from my tractor.









I'm not sure what caused the governor arm spring to get so narled up. I hope this just isn't a symptom of an injector pump failure. The IP slide seems to move smoothly once I clear the stretched spring but it will tend to stick in the off position if I easily "ram" it back a little bit.
I'm going to take it apart and refurbish the spring linkage in there and see if I can get it working again over the holidays and will update on how it goes.

Wondering has anyone ever seen this kind of damage in this area before? Any advice?

Sent from my iPad

 

[Fuggley]

Here's a clearer pic of the correct spring connections, I.e, this is the way they should be:



... and a few more pics of the 2 governor springs distortion with a light from back after throttle plate removed a bit. It's going to be a heck of a job reconnecting those little springs with my sausage fingers.

















... anyone ever seen these springs stretch all out of proportion like this? It looks like a small tangled up Slinkey in there. Also throttle arm and the governor arm have about 3/8" between them... wondering if that's normal. Not a lot of detail on this in my service manual, just a few one dimensional drawings.
Any help or input on this appreciated as I'd rather replace an engine than try to hook up small springs like this. It would be easier on by back.

It's obvious though that I need to replace the governor springs.... not sure about the IP. The IP rack seems to stick hard in a few spots. I can get it working smoothly but the sticky action will recur after I leave it for awhile..

 

[Gittyup]

Don't really know anything about these mechanisms, but the inner (governor?) arm looks way out of position and that is what caused the spring to get mangled. Could just be a consequence of something else that has failed.

 

[Xfaxman]

Buy a Spring Hook Tool.

 

[rider7767]

If I had not seen the gnarled spring, I would have started with "water in the fuel". It is common this time of year. Good luck with it.

 

[ritcheyvs]

If the pin that controls the IP rack moves smoothly, the IP should be OK. The "idle" spring that should always push the rack to the right so the attached pin rests against the flat face of the inner governor arm unless the stop solenoid is forcing the rack to the left (full off) position.

I can't say how the springs got that way but the big spring is supposed to float lose on the outside of the small spring and both are attached between the outer governor arm and the throttle lever. The big outer spring is supposed to be lose until the inner spring has stretched enough to "take up the slack". This creates a dual (non linear) spring force on the governor arm (higher force at greater stretch).

I don't see how the IP could create the spring mess. Maybe there is a problem with the centrifugal governor? Hope not. I'd start by just try replacing the springs but don't drop any parts or you'll need to pull the oil pan to get them out. The book recommends the spring hook. You might also use a locking hemostat to be sure you have a good grip on those springs. Another trick to prevent dropped parts is to tie a piece of string or floss to a part until you get it in or out.

 

[Fuggley]

Thanks for the responses. Good suggestion to get a spring hook tool. I think I can at least manufacture something similar to hook the spring ends to remove/attach the springs. Good suggestion as well to run a wire/string through them too, so not to drop anything into the block. The governor and idle arms are lined up ok, the pic is just hard to see them. The springs just got tangled up somehow... I'll just chalk it up to wear and tear and replace them. Probably the least expensive but essential parts of the tractor
On closer inspection, it does look like the IP is rack/gear damaged though. The rack slide does stick to a hard stop when moved to about the half way area. I can free it up if I push/thump away at it for awhile. But it will stick in the same place again, so I've got to get a new one.
Lots of threads on the site about this discouraging, ongoing and known problem with Kioti IP's, so I dont think we want to open that issue up for discussion here again. Just ditto here all the other past/current thread discussion on the subject and I'll update Ritchie's spreadsheet when I'm done with the fix. So my plan is to first get an order in for parts and materials once the shops are open again early in the new year, i.e., new springs, gaskets (for covers & manifold), new SS guide and an IP.
Once the parts are in, I'll reassemble and hopefully get this fixed up.

 

[rider7767]

Fuggley,
What year is your CK30?

 

[Fuggley]

Fuggley, What year is your CK30?

It's an F--- so 2006. This will be the second replaced IP.
First one self distructed at 220 hours and was repaired under warranty by dealer. There are 880 hours on it now.... and it's gone again.

 

[ritcheyvs]

If your IP is suspect (which it is if the rack doesn't run smoothly) you probably need to remove it to investigate. I haven't done this but others report it's not too hard. One advantage of doing this first is that you'll know what seals, gaskets, etc you'll need to order.

Considering the cost of a new IP (vicinity $1K, which may be no better than the last one), have you considered a rebuild, either locally or by a place like diesel fuel injection turbo, Conestoga Diesel Injection injector fuel pump turbocharger willow street pa Willow Street, PA Home