CK20 Worries Me

[gilbertmsg]

I gonna try to make a good sized pile and burn it. Then start again, looks like I should be able to get it done with about 4-5 burns. Don't understand the no-no about pushing up against other trees? They eventually will come down too.

Eddie.

 

[laurencen]

Highbeam, can you elaborate on 2 stage clutch, My CK20 is a gear, when the clutch is depressed the PTO stops, when changing gears tilling or cutting grass same thing, 2 stage is that a option and the PTO continues when stopped, Hydraulic I believe the PTO runs continously correct?

 

[IXLR8]

On the CK30 gear I test drove, if you pushed the clutch down 1/2 way, the tractor stopped moving but the PTO stayed running. If you pushed the clutch down all the way, then the PTO stopped as well. I don't know if the CK20 is the same or not.

 

[ChuckinNH]

The PTO on the CK20 gear,is transmission driven, and not live. The clutch is single stage, and ceases to drive the PTO when depressed.

 

[laurencen]

Hi Chuck, that is what I figured, stopping the PTO has had good sucess, however it can be a pain when snowblowing

 

[ChuckinNH]

Yes, you have to be quick with the clutch when snowblowing for sure! On the older tractors I ran sometimes you could find the sweet spot, and by dropping the rpm just a bit quickly, you could slide the shift lever out of gear without using the clutch. We didn't have a snowblower back then, but we did a lot of cutting with a sickle bar mower, etc.
I'm impressed with all the work you are getting done with yours, and hope it works out well for you! Maybe I'll end up with one of those yet.

 

[Highbeam]

I gonna try to make a good sized pile and burn it. Then start again, looks like I should be able to get it done with about 4-5 burns. Don't understand the no-no about pushing up against other trees? They eventually will come down too.

Eddie.

The problem with pushing piles of brush into the and against the other trees is that you can't burn them there. You'll need to move the brush away from the trees to pile and burn it. So at the least you have added an extra move to your job.

The next thing is that you can't pull brush, only push (without a grapple). So to push the piles away from the trees you somehow have to get behind the pile and between the trees enough to push the brush into the clearing for burn. You could always cut the trees down but then the stumps will still need to be worked around. If you have stump pulling ability then you should have pulled the stumps before stacking brush against the trees.

Then you have to consider that the pile you are going to be pushing will be a single tangled mess that was placed there with several max load pushes. You might not be able to push the pile away from the trees.

Then there are the surpise stumps that you pushed your brush onto. You'll fight that pile trying to move it for a long time before realizing that the stump is in there.

It's a bit like processing firewood for a woodstove. You want to minimize the amount of handling to be efficient.

Brush clearing is super super fun.

 

[gilbertmsg]

I would love to have the grapple, but not in our budget. The area I clearing has all scub pines, and thick brush. I did not have an open area to push any of the waste into, so I just made a hole and went for it. Now I'm going to call our county on Monday to find out when our burn ban starts in Sussex Co. VA. Making some headway.

Eddie

 

[Highbeam]

I too suffer from not having a grapple. Though relatively cheap, they seem to be a technical hurdle for me with the hydraulic controls and such. I made due without the grapple for several acres of clearing. One thing I did learn is that there is a point where the tractor is not the right tool for the job and to move on in those cases to the next area or step of clearing. Stump removal is a fine example of a time where it is best to just leave it alone.

I've done lots of burning myself and hired lots of burning done. In my case a logging company was hired for the burn and they brought an excavator on site to do the work which bills at 100$ per hour. They have insurance for runaway fires, they have a burn permit, they have the ability to grab a stnading tree which has caught on fire and pull it down and into the fire which happened about 9 times at my last fire. Without that excavator I may have had a forest fire.

Burning slash with a tractor is fun and quite rewarding but it takes a lot of time and includes a lot of risk. I found that if I piled the slash near the burn site over the course of the summer that the hired burner could be very efficient at burning the slash. While the excavator is letting the fire burn down he can be walking around and popping stumps to be thrown on the fire.

In all cases, you first make a clearing and then push the slash into the clearing in a nice organized heap.

I've made several long threads about my clearing adventures which were accomplished with pretty much the same equipment that you have. I added and recommend that you add one piece of equipment, a toothbar. Mine was from Markham and was cheap. Very useful.

I attached a couple of pictures for you. The excavator is very large requiring a wide load low boy. No tractor could stack the brush on the fire like that machine 20-30 feet tall. My burn permit was for a pile less than 50 feet in any direction.

 

[gilbertmsg]

Ok, after working on the areas for about 1 year, I realized I need a grapple or thumb. Went be the dealer this morning and ordered a set of rear remotes. Need to know what else I need to make either the grapple or thumb work properly. I know I will need some type of controller to work the attachment. Quoted less than $400.00 for the remote, what is the best/cost effective way to get a good setup to move the brush/small trees around on my CK20

 

[IslandTractor]

1) Install the rear remotes
2) Measure the hose distance from rear remotes to FEL torque tube by using an old hose to simulate installation of hydraulic hoses. Route the hose over the left rear axle, under that side of the operator platform then curve up the left FEL post to the FEL arm and then along the arm to the torque tube. Make sure you don't pull it tight and kink the hose at bends. You'd rather measure a little too long than short.
3) Either go to local hydraulic shop/tractor dealer or use Surplus Center (TBN advertizer) to purchase appropriate length 3/8 inch hose with 1/2 inch NPT fittings and Pioneer (tractor) style quick connectors (you'll need four for the hydraulic hose and two for the rear remote (might come in kit???) as well as two more for the grapple hoses. Make sure you get the right number of matching male/female connectors.
4) Install all the quick connects using one or two wraps of teflon tape (keep the tape off the first few threads so it cannot enter the system).
5) Install the hydraulic hoses to the underside of the tractor just like you did with the garden hose using zipties. Best is to leave enough for a gentle curve to the rear remotes (or use 90 degree NPT fittings if you want to flush mount). Use duct tape or nylon hose protection sleeve to insure that the hoses don't get cut by abrasion at corners (especially at transition from under operator station to FEL mount and again from FEL mount to FEL arm)
6) Bolt or weld a mounting plate to the torque tube to hold the hose/quick connects. If you are a slob like me you can just zip tie the hoses in place.
7) Order a Markham light duty 48 inch grapple (maybe with extra spacer bottom tines) for about a grand delivered. Ask them to leave off the skid steer style flat quick connectors as they will be useless to you. Make sure they use the 3/8 inch hose with 1/2 inch NPT fittings (pretty sure they do)
8) Order a SS QA attachment mount for your Kioti pin mount. ATI sells them for big bucks. Horst Welding sells them for even bigger bucks. Rick Wallace sells one that he has locally made for many fewer bucks.
9) You are ready to go. Hook up the grapple to the FEL. Attach all hoses/quick connects and fire her up. Control the grapple with the rear remote lever that will be just to the right and back of your FEL joystick.
10) Have fun. The CK20 and a light duty grapple are a tremendous combo. Photos below are all CK20 with light duty grapple equivalent to the Markham.

 

[gilbertmsg]

Thanks for the quick reply. Do you have a rough estimate of total cost? Due to being partly to mostly poor, I may have to purchase one piece at a time.

Eddie

 

[BJN644]

Thanks for the quick reply. Do you have a rough estimate of total cost? Due to being partly to mostly poor, I may have to purchase one piece at a time.

Eddie

I can see easily spending $2000 with the SS adapter, grapple, aux. hydraulics, and a couple of long hydraulic hoses.

 

[IslandTractor]

I can see easily spending $2000 with the SS adapter, grapple, aux. hydraulics, and a couple of long hydraulic hoses.

That might be a little high and there are some ways to save money doing this. First, Markham really does sell their basic 48 inch grapple delivered for about $900. I personally would spring for the extra intermediate bottom tines and that would cost a bit more...let's estimate $1000. The hoses and fittings from a retail hydraulic shop would cost you maybe $200-250 but you could cut that in half by figuring out the details yourself and purchasing from Surplus Supply. I've bought from them but never called for advice but I understand they are quite helpful over the phone. That leaves the QA adapter as the major remaining purchase. I don't recall what Rick is charging for his version (call Wallace Tractor or PM Rick) however I am pretty sure that is the cheapest of the alternatives. One additional expense will be modifying your existing bucket to acept a QA adapter and that can be done for about $150 with a QA receiver plate with your own cutting/welding or add in the cost of professional welding to attach it.

One way to minimize cost is to forgo the QA and just get a pin mount grapple. I am not sure if Markham does that for the Kioti but you could ask. If you are not switching the bucket and grapple on a daily basis it is an acceptable compromise in my opinion. That would cut the total cost to about $1500.