CK20 vs TC24 (What do you think?)

[jawmaw]

I have looked at and priced all major brands, and I thought I had my mind made up and was going to buy the CK30hst over the TC29DA because of the lower price and great features of the Kioti.

However, after visiting the Sunbelt AG show last week and sitting on these tractors (and driving the Kioti) I started to feel these tractors may be a little to large.

I am a home builder and will mostly be using the tractor to clean and grade my jobsites. I need good manauverability and power.

The loader specs of the CK30 and the CK20 differ by only 81lbs, and the TC24 and the CK20 differ by only 16lbs.

The 3 point specs are more significant. The CK30 has a max of 1764lbs(24" aft of hitch) and the CK20 is 1109lbs. The TC24 is 1265lbs (at 24")

Should I be concerned with the difference in the PTO HP? The only PTO powered equipment I foresee is a rotary cutter and possibly a woodchipper but who knows. The TC24 has a PTO rating of 19.5 where the CK20 is 15.5. The CK20 also weighs about 400lbs more than the TC24

The tractor will be equipped with loader, backhoe, rotary cutter, and boxblade with hydraulic tilt. This will be the majority of the work the tractor does.

Finally the CK20 equipped with the above attachments comes in around $18,800 where the TC24 comes in around $23,000. The CK30 would be about $1000 less than the TC24.

This is a really tough decision because I dont want to buy an underpowered machine and I dont want to buy something too large to be useful.

A little advice and insight would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[Bob_Skurka]

The CK20 is the best (IMHO) 21 hp tractor out there for the money. The TC24 is the best (INMO) 24 hp tractor on the market.

The capacities of the 3pt hitches are pretty academic. Both tractors can lift implements that are heavier than the practical limit of the machine (even with front weights, the front end will lift off the ground).

The real difference is the PTO hp and that is where the advantage goes to the NH simply because of the larger engine. Rotary cutters take a lot of power per foot to run, I would opt for the NH simply on that merit. While I like the CK20 a lot it is not a TC24 because it has less power. The CK20 will be limited to a smaller rotary cutter, or if both are the same size, the TC24 will more easily cut things in its path.

In all other ways, they are equals. By the way, you should be able to do better on the TC24, I've seen prices of TC24s that are within $1000 of the CK20 in the past.

I can't speak to the backhoes on either machine.

The FELs are very similar, the TC has very marginally more capacity, but not so much that it makes a difference.

 

[jawmaw]

Thanks Bob! Would you consider the extra weight of the CK20 an advantage over the TC24 for my needs?

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Generally I would not consider the extra weight any real advantage. I prefer proper ballast to increased overall weight. In the case of either tractor, the rear wheels will have to be filled and or you'll need extra weight of some kind on the rear end to take full advantage of the FEL. That said, the slight weight advantage that the CK20 has for FEL work is real as an advantage only until you consider that neither can be safely operated at FEL capacity without additional weight. As there really isn't that much weight advantage to begin with, and as it is spread over the length of the tractor instead of being in the rear where it is needed, the weight is really a false advantage in my mind. I would say that the CK20 is a relative bargain based on the pricing you have gotten, the TC24 is a nice machine, but the added PTO hp is probably not worth the premium you were quoted UNLESS the bush hogging is going to be a big part of the work you are going to do, at that point then you simply need the extra PTO hp.

 

[KiotiJohn]

I'd get the CK30 or the TC24, with the CK30 being the choice. With HST you'll find that it's VERY maneuverable because you can easily go forward and back to make tighter turns.

Then you'll have the extra power and extra features (telescoping sway bars and hitch arms, etc.) to use when you find out that you want to do a lot more than you're planning now.

I, once again, have to disagree with Bob about the weight. To take advantage of the tractor's HP, it helps to have an overall heavier tractor.

I'd much rather not have to always bother with adding weights when most of the time I can use just a small boxblade or the rotary cutter to keep the rear wheels from spinning. Ballast is mostly used just to balance a tractor when one has too much weight on only one end, not to give it the overall weight.

It's not a given that the rear wheels will need to be filled. As a matter-of-fact, many argue that loaded wheels with using a backhoe puts too much weight on the rear.

A backhoe on the rear is plenty of weight for doing loader work.

As for price on the CK20, I paid $16,681 for TLB, and a boxblade(non-hydraulic) last January. Considering you're also getting a rotary cutter (size/brand unknown), you're adding hydraulics for the boxblade, and that prices have increased about 2%, it's not a terrible price. The CK30 would be an even better deal.

I love my CK20HST, and most of the time it does what I want it to, but there are times I could use the extra HP, and when I add a DK45 later on, I'll have all the power I've needed.

Go for the CK30. You'll be glad you did. John

 

[Bob_Skurka]

Jason, KiotiJohn and I basically are in disagreement about the excess weight of the tractor, however I'm sure he and I both agree that these are excellent tractors.

Personally, I've yet to find a situation where I had to add weight to operate a rotary cutter or blade. I did get rid of my rotary cutter early this year but it didn't need added weight to operate it with my TC24. I was able to use a 5' cutter with the TC (although I was not taking down anything larger than 1" diameter trees and mostly it was used for tall heavy pasture grass). Ditto on not needing more weight for the box blade. Now I do have a very heavy snowblower, and I did add 100# of EZ weights to the front wheels but I remove the FEL when I use the rear snowblower so there is no counterbalance. When I got the snowblower, the dealer had it adjusted to the farthest rearward setting; after the first winter I reset it so it is about 6" closer to the 3pt hitch and the need for the counterbalance is dramatically diminshed. I also used to use a very heavy Befco finish mower, again, when the FEL was removed, the EZ weights were helpful counterbalance. Most people boxblade with their the FEL on, there is plenty of weight with a FEL to offset any real or imagined weight issues. I've used a 5' box blade, which I admit is a bit too large for a small frame tractor, espeically in the heavy clay I have but it works reasonably well if I don't try to become too aggressive. A 4' box blade is better suited for the tractor, but I have a 5' blade for the Kubota B2910 and was working in tight spaces in the woods a few times so I chose to use the blade with the TC.

I think the weight issue between these tractors is minimal largely because both fall into the fairly heavy range. The Kioti is on the heavy end of the spectrum. The New Holland is also moderately heavy. Now if you wanted to compare a Kioti to a Kubota B7610, then there is a much more substantial weight difference and that will have a real effect on traction as the 24hp Kubota is going to be substantially lighter, however, it still will have greater PTO hp and again, if running the bush hog is a big factor, then even that could be a good choice. In my area, the Kubota's are favored by the landscape crews so while there is some issue on weight/traction with these small tractors, I still believe it is less of an issue than some others.

 

[pekabu]

I believe Bob really summed up things pretty well. It must be because I have a TC24, but my second favorite Cut is the CK20. The loader, and the controls to me are pretty well laid out.

As for weight, issue, I would prefer a lighter machine and add weight. There is a downside to this. The TC24 can lift alot for it's size, but not without help. I have my rear tires loaded, and with a box blade on the back it still gets light. The bh tends to be on most of the time though, and with it on weight is not an issue. I do hope to do some mowing next year, so hopefully taking the weight off will help keep the lawn in good shape.

One thing I would like to add about a BH on a tc is that they are not the fastest. It works great for me, but can be a bit slow at times so a ck30 would be better at this.

My suggestion on this is:
1. buy the most tractor you can. Take in consideration $$$ and size.
2. find a good dealer unless you are comfortable with being on your own. I do have a good dealer fairly close, but expensive.
3. This orange and blue are pretty close. I don't think you can make a bad decision.

 

[To20Chris]

I've disagreed with Bob on the weight issue before, and will continue to do so. In a perfect world, more power is better, and so is more weight. The downside of weight comes in transporting a heavier tractor, and the possibility of leaving bigger ruts. In every other respect, heavier is better. Weight, and weight alone, supplies the traction for pulling and the power for digging - engine power has nothing to do with it. The power is really needed when turning PTO attachments (mowers), and I doubt you'll be power limited for the digging or lifting chores - that what grearing is for. In this case the heavier tractor is also less powerful, so you have to look at the tasks you listed that require more power (mowing/hogging), and figure out if the CK20 has enough. That, in turn, will depend on how big a deck you want to run, and how fast you need to move. Also, look at the TC24, and decide if it has enough weight for the traction chores you need to do. It's a tough call. All CUTs are a compromise, you have to figure out which one is best optimized for the kinds of things you'll do the most.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

<font color="green"> he downside of weight comes in transporting a heavier tractor, and the possibility of leaving bigger ruts. In every other respect, heavier is better. Weight, and weight alone, supplies the traction for pulling and the power for digging </font>

Chris, as you wrote, in a perfect world . . . I will agree with you that weight is better for digging chores, but not necessarily for a FEL chores much of that has to do with what is being moved, if actual digging is required, etc. I will also agree wtih you that weight is better for traction.

I think, however, we are almost splitting hairs on the issue as these tractors are within a few hundred pounds of each other in terms of total weight. I am not sure that weight offers any advantage for bush hogging, although generally when bush hogging I would not be concerned about rutting, but I would be concerned about having the PTO hp. I also would say that the real weight issue would be noticable between a light weight tractor like a B2410 and comparing that to a CK20, but the CK20 and the TC24 are close enough that I really doubt that 95% of the users would notice any traction difference 95% of the time.

When we talk about the tasks as described, which are varied, and we are talking about a couple of small tractors, I would really suspect that if you put a 4' box blade on either one of them that there would be zero PRACTICAL difference between the 2 tractors.

Again, the only real difference I see in these tractors, other than the TC seems priced too high, is that the TC has greater PTO hp and if pulling a larger rotary cutter is important then there is no subsititue for the extra hp. I would also suspect that as a contractor, a tiller might be a very useful tool for leaving a nice finish on the ground prior to seeding/sodding, and again, the added PTO hp of the TC would be a real advantage.

 

[jawmaw]

KiotiJohn I really thought you would recommend the CK20 after reading your praise of the machine in many of your posts. I have been driving myself a little crazy tryng to decide between the small frame and the medium frame and I thought the small frame would be the best all around machine, but now you have caused the return of severe indecision.

Bob, use of the rotary cutter will be occasional only. The tractors main functions will be digging, moving dirt and trash, and grading.

I can afford the bigger tractor but I am concerned that the size might get in my way.

Believe it or not this is the hardest purchase decision I have ever made!!

By the way, Corriher gave me some prices on the TC24 that were not much better than the local dealer. However, Carver gave me a really nice price on the CK20 delivered, much less then the local dealer.....but the service after the sale really concerns me if I bought out of state. I am not a mechanic and I dont have time to learn.

Thanks for all the great posts concerning my issue!!!