CK20 starting issue

[Agentiron]

I might have a bad cell in the battery of my ck20. It won't click when I try to start, but I get a buzzing noise when I turn the key. I can hook up a jump box and this will get the lights to come on the control pannel, but no start. I get 12.5 volts on the battery with no load, but assume it could be a bad cell where putting a load against it shows the batteries problem. For instance...if it is a bad starter.....can you get a replacement at a local auto parts store, or do you have to go through Kioti? If I could get it locally, how do I go about selecting a model that fits?

I am not sure if it could be a relay, but figure with the control pannel illuminateing only with the jump box, this is not likely the problem.

Thanks folks.

 

[carpenter383]

The simplest thing to do might be to take a battery out of your car or truck and hook it up to the tractor and see if it starts.

 

[Agentiron]

Ok, I left the jumper box on for a while and got a start. I checked the battery while running at idle, and at 2200 rpm's, and I am getting 13.33 volts regardless of rpm's. I am thinking I should see an increase in volts commenserate with rpm increase....I would think I need higher voltage for the alternator to be doing much of any chargeing. Can anyone offer input on this, and where to get a quick fix....I need my tractor!

 

[carpenter383]

The alternator should be putting out about 14.7 volts. After the voltage regulator tells the alternator to charge rpms won't make much difference on voltage output. Make sure you have good grounds.

 

[Dmace]

Anything over 12 volts from your alternator is going to charge a 12 volt battery. An automotive alternator (150amp +/-) will put out about 14.5 volts at 3-4,000 rpms but these tractors use much smaller batteries and have much smaller alternators. I think 13.3 volts sounds normal and is not the problem, replace the battery since it sounds like the problem. If you want to check it just unhook the battery from the tractor cables and run some jumpers from the cables to another battery in a car/truck that is known to be good and see if it does the same.

After the voltage regulator tells the alternator to charge rpms won't make much difference on voltage output.

Voltage regulator is typically after the battery and only protects the electronics. An alternator will always vary voltage output depending on engine rpms.

 

[Agentiron]

OK, this is the story. I put the battery on a charger for a few hours, hooked her up and it turned over like brand new. Checked the running voltage and got 14.5.....as opposed to the 13.3. I had her running the other day, and actually after I jumped it started, I let it run a while to charge the battery, but soon as I shut her down.....dead as a door nail. The question is, why did the battery take a charge from the charger, but not from the alternator? If it takes a charge...maybe the battery is fine, but the alternator is crap, or the regulator is acting up...... I am a bit mystified.

 

[carpenter383]

Anything over 12 volts from your alternator is going to charge a 12 volt battery. An automotive alternator (150amp +/-) will put out about 14.5 volts at 3-4,000 rpms but these tractors use much smaller batteries and have much smaller alternators. I think 13.3 volts sounds normal and is not the problem, replace the battery since it sounds like the problem. If you want to check it just unhook the battery from the tractor cables and run some jumpers from the cables to another battery in a car/truck that is known to be good and see if it does the same.



Voltage regulator is typically after the battery and only protects the electronics. An alternator will always vary voltage output depending on engine rpms.

A few things, While an alternator my still charge at 13.3 volts I've never heard of one with such a low voltage output. It really makes no difference if it's a tractor or a car it's still a 12 volt system. An alternator will not start charging until it's "kicked in" by the voltage regulator. Many alternators use an internal voltage regulator built into the alternator some use external, but they're always gonna be BEFORE the battery, it not only protects the electronics, but also keeps the battery from being over charged (hence the name voltage REGULATOR) The RPM's of a car vs. a tractor means nothing, all they need to do is change the pulley on the alternator to speed it up for a slower running engine. The jumper cables running from truck to unhooked tractor batt cables prolly wouldn't work unless they were really big guage cables, too much resistance.

Agentiron When you tested voltage which wires on the tractor did you test? Sounds like there may be a problem with the connection from the alternator to the battery

 

[IXLR8]

It almost sounds to me like you had a bad connection at the battery. It doesn't take much resistance at those connections for the battery to not charge properly, especially if alternator was only putting out 13.3 volts. Pulling battery, properly charging it, reconnecting it, with good connection may be all you need. If it works fine for a while, I would get a wire brush battery terminal cleaner, clean up both the post and the cable, connect them up and spray them down with a battery corrosion preventer.

 

[Dmace]

Follow the battery ground cable to where it mounts to the frame, I heard on here a few people having battery troubles and it led to that cable being pretty corroded at the frame.

 

[Highbeam]

A couple of things. The battery in our tractors is very much a car battery, nothing special and is a common off the shelf battery. A 12 volt battery is actually fully charged at 12.8 and the alternator must charge at a voltage above 12.8 to be charging the battery. The typical alternator is regulated to between 13.5 and 14.5 volts.

I have been chasing a charging issue on my CK as well and have found that the alternator puts out pretty low voltage at about 13.4 as well and does not vary with RPMS at the battery which is where I measure these things. This appears to be normal.

In my case I just charged the dead battery overnight and it has worked normally ever since. I believe that a combination of corrosion on the terminals and sitting in the barn all winter is hard on the system.

Oh and I use an optima style AGM (non-liquid filled) battery for the improved vibration resistance and lack of acid spillage.

I cleaned up the battery side of the terminals but need to pull off that painted on frame ground right near the battery. It's due.

 

[Coyote machine]

Agentiron,

For what its worth after doing what has been suggested already if you are not seeing around 14.2-14.5 volts at the battery when the battery is fully charged then I would take the battery to a local automotive garage and have them do a "load Test" on it. THis will tell what is the actual condition of amps NOT volts available to turn over the engine when it has not already been stsarted on any given day. Sometimes one cell will sulfate and leave the bettery reading ok volts but it is AMPS that make the 'juice' to turn over the engine when cold or to run the loads you may put on the battery when the tractor is in use- for instance lights, etc.
Batteries have a finite life and will be dead sooner if let sit over the hot or cold months. If it fails a load test you need a new battery.

Good luck- post back results.
Try an Interstate Battery if available in your area. I've had good luck with them and used to sell them when I had my foreign auto shop years ago.

Coyote Machine

 

[Dmace]

For what its worth after doing what has been suggested already if you are not seeing around 14.2-14.5 volts at the battery when the battery is fully charged then I would take the battery to a local automotive garage and have them do a "load Test" on it.

A 12 volt battery alone is not going to produce 14.2-14.5 volts, that is the alternator creating the voltage. A 12 volt battery fully charged is only going to expel about 12-12.8 volts. Typical stores like NAPA and VIP Auto will test batteries, alternators and starters for free.

 

[Coyote machine]

Dmace,
You are correct in saying that the battery will not produce 14+ volts. However, I should have said if one checks the voltage at the battery when it is fully charged and the electrical system is function correctly, including of course the alternator, the reading at the battery posts should be between 14.2-14.5 volts. This assumes the alternator is doing its job and the voltage regulator is doing its: keeping the voltage from going above/(below) the preset limits of around 14.5 volts on the high side. If either the voltage regulator or alternator is malfunctioning then all bets are off.
I agree too that some stores will test things like batteries free, but will they and can they do a load test on the battery? That test will tell if the battery is good or bad; and I don't know if they perform that test in particular since it requires somewhat different equipment to simulate a load on the battery. Maybe you know if they do them or not?

 

[Dmace]

The reason I said that is it sounded like you were implying that if you do not see over 14 volts at the battery then you should test the battery. If you are not seeing that kind of voltage then you should check the alternator not the battery.

 

[Coyote machine]

Dmace,

What you said- {sorry it was late last night and I wasn't getting across what I meant to say...}.
Yes, less than 14+ volts charging system is malfunctioning

 

[Highbeam]

For those of us that have actually put a voltmeter on our batteries with the engine running, what was the voltage readout at the battery?

Not all regulators are the same and not all are set to put out 14.5 volts to the battery. Mine is only putting out 13.4 volts or so and while I know that I would prefer to see over 14, perhaps the tractor's system is different. Didn't the Kubotas use some sort of dynamo?