CK20 serviced at Upper Valley Swansea, NH no glow starting fixed and more

[malk315]

Hi all-

Since I needed 300 hour service (big one that is all fluids all filters, front axle inlcluded etc) and in the last month or so I've been starting up cold w/ 45 seconds plus tons of smoke clearly cylinders not firing.... I figured I let them take care of it. Here's what they did:

- All filters, HST oil
- Front axle
- Pulled and cleaned glow plugs
- New ignition switch (this turned out to be root cause of no glow)
- di-electric greased all plugs under lower panel (I had new harnesses installed couple years ago from corrosion)
- Cenimatic upgrade on joystick -- my machine bought in '06, mauafactured in '03
- New left flasher that was broken off
- grease everything etc.

When the glow wasn't working I still had the yellow light on the dash, you could hear the relay click when light lights up and click again when it goes out. Start was just tons of white smoke and she would take at least 45 seconds to 1 minute when down near freezing outside (but still in garage so moderate cold start).

Heading up there tomorrow to pick up the machine.

Next thing for me will be a new bucket edge (plan to have my brother weld on some new metal) and thinking about getting a rear blower from upper valley to do some business with them.

I'm very happy they opened a location in Swansea. I hope it remains sustainable for them -- I haven't run the machine yet, but from what it sounds on how they did everything I will be using them exclusively from now on.

I'm a victim of my local dealer Harvard power in Harvard, MA being dropped by Kioti -- now I'm back in good shape with a means to haul the machine and what appears to be top notch service and happy to take care of the machine even though it wasn't born at that dealership!

Here's some pictures of my towing setup from when I dropped it off last weekend -- by bro's '93 F350 dump truck with 460 V8 gas, 5 speed, PTO driven Iraqois dump body, diamond snow plow, pintle and receiver hitch setup w/ 7 way for trailer w/ electric brakes. I use it w/ my 16' trailer (~7000 lb gross) for hauling the CK20. The glare from the sun was terrible so I couldn't get a good picture -- this is the first haul of the machine w/ my bro's truck instead of my buddy's 2000 F250 which both pull it great.

It was tempting to just load up one of those shiny new CK35's they had sitting around and borrow that for the week

 

[malk315]

Here's some youtube videos I put together from some stump grinding from a couple of weeks ago.

This is my CK20 towing around a Rayco stump grinder with 4 cylinder Deutz diesel. Being able to tow with the tractor instead of a pickup truck enabled us to get at everything nicely.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMvqaeNbpto]Pollock's Stump Grinder - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODnRI3UKdGU]Pollock's Stump Grinder - YouTube[/ame]

I know Mark Pollock of Pollock brother's tree service who owns the grinder -- came out great.

 

[Dmace]

Great videos!

I've heard good things from Upper Valley tractor and I'm sure their new location is full of good qualified personnel just like the northern NH location. I'm surprised you needed a new ignition, is the tractor stored outdoors? Do you use the plastic cover to protect it when the key's out?

I must say, either I've been lucky to avoid any problems on my Kioti or the cab and carport storage really make a difference. :thumbsup:

I used to pull mine with a 94 F350 dually dump with the non-turbo 7.3l diesel. It certainly wasn't easy and eventually led to a transmission failure. The 03 RAM HEMI pulls it much easier!

Click thumbnails for larger images.

 

[Coyote machine]

As far as a new bucket edge Kioti may make one for the CK series- not sure about whether they do or not, BUT for my DK-40 they sell a HD edge that bolts on and is reversible. I'd ask your dealer about if one is available or not for your bucket.

 

[malk315]

My machine is stored indoors -- however when I bought it new it had sat outside on the dealer's lot for many months and the ignition cover wasn't in place.

When they prepped it for me, they put a new ignition cover on (and a few other things missing like the caps for the loader connections etc).

When I had the harnesses replaced a couple years ago the older swansea, nh dealer cleaned the ignition switch. It's interesting I've had both the ignition switch moisture problem and the harness problem -- certainly from the many rainstorms it sat in. If the harness connections under the dash panel aren't oriented right, water can work in. This is why it's good to di-electric grease them.

Also -- I checked w/ the dealer -- he offered a cutting edge they get where they cut it to length and bolt on I believe. It was not Kioti as far as I know -- possibly a local supplier.

Lastly -- they were offering the new polar-d fuel additive folks have been mentioning. I didn't ask 'em about it -- I'm a regular power service user.

 

[malk315]

I wanted to share w/ you guys I went to use the machine this morning to clear some light snow -- about 30 degrees in the garage to find no change in the no-glow problem. It's 100% obvious the glow plugs are not doing anything. No different than when the problem started back around November. I posted a video in a thread a while back of cold and warm start of my machine to demonstrate properly functioning glow system on a non CK20S machine -- you can see the links in this post:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...ld-weather-start-procedure-2.html#post2170426

If I have time I'll make another video of what it's doing now. The rpms are way down and non-firing cylinders blow fuel out -- you guys know on the non CK20S machines the key can be turned slightly towards crank to activate the glow on demand -- when I do this during the 1/2 minute+ of not firing, the glow has no effect. When I do a warm start and let the glow timeout after starting, there's no normal slight difference in RPM when the glow light goes out. I also tried to activate the glow after the engine smoothed out -- in my video you can see where it causes the engine to almost quit since it didn't need glow anymore -- today activating it while running smooth had no effect.

I'm not going to start bashing Upper Valley -- things happen -- but I'd like to share what happened as unfortunately it didn't turn out as well as originally thought. I already talked to Justin who did the work and Rob the service manager will call me later on. I asked Justin if he metered the common "rail" with the glow relay on to check for power and possibly isolated it to the relay -- he said he didn't and was instructed to change the ignition switch. The switch certainly was acting a little flaky (sometimes you could hear intermittent contact when turning key to intial glow position). So the ignition needed to be changed regardless... I'm guessing they didn't do a cold start test after it was put out for pasture (mine was the first one worked on that day so they could have tested it at day end).

What's disappointing for me is that it's over 50 miles each way and just in fuel costs alone on the dumptruck it's a tank of gas and 1/2 day of time last weekend and this most recent weekend (I have to fetch the truck from Methuen, MA the evening before hauling) -- so easily over $150 in fuel.
The total cost for the work above was $685.21 so I've got over $800 invested and one full day+ of time... I chose Upper Valley over Orchard Hill of Belchertown for two reasons: Upper Valley is the same distance, and they are listed as 5 paw whereas orchard hill isn't.

If there's something they can do to make it right (hauling it back is just not an option -- I can't do 2 more Saturdays and approach $300 in fuel) we'll see. Otherwise next service I'll take it in again and they can have another crack at it so long as running for the summer mowing season w/o glow won't cause new damage. I have the shop manual and had no problem isolating my harness corrosion issues a couple of years ago -- if need be I'll figure out electrically what's going on myself with the entire glow circuit. I'm the type of guy who likes to just let the dealer do maintenance like a car and I have a means to haul the machine so it's still practical -- and major service is only need once every 18 months w/ the amount of hours I put on it. So I prefer to have the dealer do the work.

On the positive side -- all of the other work is great. I am amazed at how much more precision control I have of the bucket with the new joystick upgrade with the cenematic kit that replaces the plastic balls with metal. The machine runs as strong as ever -- might be running slightly smoother now. Also the brake pedal doesn't need to be pushed as far to activate the brakes (it's "tighter" now) and this is great since before the pedal would get close to putting strain on the hydraulic lines that are "behind" the pedal to some extent. I know one user on here reported the brake pedal interfered w/ the lines which led to a line rupture.

So we'll see how things pan out. Wish I had better news.

 

[Bob77064]

Malk great video, that stump grinder is awesome.

 

[malk315]

I uploaded the start videos to youtube since that is a great video platform. Here they are -- cold start first, warm start later:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yySaEqJnMfU]Cold starting 2006 vintage Kioti CK20 - YouTube[/ame] [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3U3TqtO3m0]Warm start 2006 vintage Kioti CK20 - YouTube[/ame]

Some more videos you guys might like since they're right on youtube -- 20" capacity morbark chipper clearing the lot next door:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHR-uPCaAow]Morbark 20" whole tree chipper - YouTube[/ame]

A massive tall pine that had a "V" split off from wind (and come inches from my garage) left a very dangerous remaining main portion of tree w/ less than half of it's diameter holding up. My brother Greg who used to do tree work daily climbed, limbed, set a line, and we took it down -- if it fell one way it hits my neighbors house, the other way, hits my house, so we felled it perpendicular. The last video is the most entertaining of this series!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u6GqtDtsoU]Greg Initial Climb - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI0TrDirS9U]Greg Almost There - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeH5WDNf9tY]Greg Ready to Set Line - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1jWRZKM__o]Greg Felling, Us Pulling, Went Perfect, Fire the Videographer! - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Dmace]

I never start my tractor with the throttle all the way down. Cold or warm, I always put the throttle 1/4 up. Other than that, it sounds normal...

 

[malk315]

Hey Derek-

The videos here now are from over a year ago when the glow system was working perfectly.

I have yet to record a video of what it's doing now. Perhaps this evening since the weather will be comparable. Stay tuned!