Cinder block chimney repair

/ Cinder block chimney repair #1  

dlabrie

Gold Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2002
Messages
438
Location
Campton, NH
Tractor
Kubota B2910
I live in snow country and I have a large cinder block chimney. There are 3 flues running through it. It is about 2’X5’ and sticks up about 5 ‘ out of the center of my roof just a foot or so down from the peak. It is about 30 years old. The cinder blocks have disintegrated in spots and have been patched up with mortar. Over that is kind of white stucco finishes that keeps flaking off. I am going to put a new roof on this spring and I want to repair this chimney once and for all. I would also, if possible, cover it with some sort of faux stone covering to match the fieldstone fireplaces in the house. Any ideas on how to go about this? Should I tear it down to the roof and start from there? Is there a super sealer I can use?
Thanks,David
 
/ Cinder block chimney repair #2  
I'm interested in the replies to this one, also, as I have the same -- but somewhat more extensive -- problem. Our cabin in the NC mountains has a concrete block chimney that's in pretty bad shape. Looking at the attached picture, the chimney runs from the ground and up through the decks on the outside of the cabin. There is only one fireplace, at the level of the top deck (main floor). The damper is rusted and broken just above the open, wood burning, masonry fireplace. I think I'm going to have to tear it down to the level of the damper, replace the damper mechanism, and rebuild it from there. It's still very functional (I can manipulate the damper plate by hand), but the mortar joints in the blocks are in poor condition. The portion below the top deck, down to the ground, is in decent and repairable shape.

I don't think there's any danger of the thing falling down, and what I'd really like to do is re-point the mortar joints without tearing down the chimney, but I don't have a clue as to whether that's possible or feasible. I, too, would then veneer the exterior, but in concrete cast "stone".
 

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/ Cinder block chimney repair #3  
Here's another shot from the side. The detail is horrible because I wasn't focusing on the chimney, but even in this distant shot, the raggedness is apparent.
 

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/ Cinder block chimney repair #4  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( what I'd really like to do is re-point the mortar joints without tearing down the chimney)</font>

I think you can do that if you can get to all the joints you want to re-mortar. It's been about 30 years now since I re-mortared a fireplace, instead of a chimney, that had most of the mortar fall out from between the fire bricks, but there was a special mortar for the high heat and it worked just fine.
 
/ Cinder block chimney repair #5  
On Ask This Old House a while back they had a similar case to yours. Broken damper that is. They removed the broken parts and installed a spring loaded cap at the top. It had a stainless steel cable that ran down through the flue and there was a handle that you used to open and close the cap.

Advantage was no need to tear into the masonary and since it closes from the top there is no chance for birds or other fauna to enter the flue.

This doesn't however address the tuckpointing issue.
 
/ Cinder block chimney repair #6  
I am a bricklayer by trade and have encountered many situations as you describe and while it is impossible to make accurate recommendations without actually seeing and inspecting the problem I will give it a shot.

From what you described you should tear down the chimney to just below the roofline and rebuild from there. In most cases the chimney will be sound below that point. In the rebuild you can then use brick, natural stone or you can rebuild with block and cover it with any of the man made products available. Anything less than a rebuild you will not be satisfied with as it will not last for any appreciable time as you have already implied in your post. If the flashing is still good you could only tear down to that point but personally I always go the extra bit and install new flashing as long as I have it down this far.

Disclaimer: In no way should anyone construe this as advise and use this information to base their repair on. Only after a qualified professional has inspected the chimney should anyone proceed with their project. In any event I will in no way be responsible for any action taken on the above. Use at your own risk.

Sorry about this but one can't be too careful.
 
/ Cinder block chimney repair #7  
OkeeDon,
If I can see right in your pics you hvae that reasting on a wood floor/deck. If so that is a big no no in building. You will always have problems. The wood will move and the cracks will come back
 
/ Cinder block chimney repair #8  
I just posted to the original post in this thread so I thought I would make a few comments here as well.

I can't tell from your photo but it appears that the block chimney has been painted. If the chimney is sound and only the exterior joints are deteriorating then it can be repointed and cast (man-made) stone applied over it. But only after any paint has been removed. The paint will not let the cast stone adhere properly to the block and you will have delamination of the stone in a very short time. I am concerned as to why the joints are failing. It can happen at the top of a chimney due to the acid in the smoke and gases but this does cause problems down lower on the chimney. This should be checked out and the cause determined if it is happening lower than a 2 or 3 feet from the top. Also care should be exorcized in the use of any applied stone product. This stuff has its place but if any water gets behind it will fail in short order. The town I live in recently applied it to a large concrete retaining wall that was built 50 or 60 years ago. It lasted only one year as the hydraulic pressure of the water coming through the 14-inch concrete wall caused the cast stone to delaminate. It then had to be removed and the law suites were flying. On a chimney you should not have this problem.

As far as the damper is concerned someone posted on the easiest way to fix the problem (the damper on the top of the chimney) and this is by far the easiest way to fix the broken damper after the old one has been removed.

If however the chimney was build right to begin with a new damper can be installed from the inside quite easily if the damper is made of cast iron and the throat of the fireplace was formed with masonry. If the damper is steel and it forms the throat then this is harder but not impossible. You may have to open a hole in the chimney on the outside just behind the damper and a new damper and throat can then be installed. It is a lot harder but makes a long lasting, permanent repair. I have done this many, many times.

Disclaimer: In no way should anyone construe this as advise and use this information to base their repair on. Only after a qualified professional has inspected the chimney should anyone proceed with their project. In any event I will in no way be responsible for any action taken on the above. Use at your own risk.

Sorry about this but one can't be too careful.
 
/ Cinder block chimney repair #9  
I just noticed in your photo that it appears your chimney is not resting on solid footings. The masonry should run all the way to the ground, below the frost line and rest on solid concrete footings. If your chimney is resting on wood then it is dangerous and should be torn down and rebuilt on solid masonry footings.
 
/ Cinder block chimney repair #10  
Nope -- the chimney goes all the way to the ground, through the decks. The portion below the firebox (from the top deck on down to the ground, a distance of about 20' or so to the footer) is solid, because it has not been as exposed as the upper portion. The fireplace has a trap door in the floor so ashes can be cleaned down through the lower chimney, and removed from a door in the basement level.
 
/ Cinder block chimney repair
  • Thread Starter
#11  
Thanks BAC,
I guess I will have to bite the bullet and tear it out to the roofline. I feel more confident building back up with blocks and putting some sort of faux stone finish on it.
 
/ Cinder block chimney repair #12  
Yes, it was either painted or smathered with a thin, soupy layer of something like stucco. That's peeling off, big time, and would likely have to be sand blasted.

<font color="blue"> I am concerned as to why the joints are failing. </font>

I'm not an expert, but it looks to me like there is moisture migrating from the inside out. I'm afraid of heights, so haven't been to the top to look, but I believe there is a concrete cap around the flue that has failed, or, having been through other work done by the original contractor (who was ridden out of town on a rail after having been tarred and feathered, or should have been if he wasn't), it wouldn't surprise me to discover that the concrete blocks are exposed at the top. I also don't know exactly how the flue was constructed -- there are firebricks inside the firebox, but I don't know if the chimney is brick lined all the way up, or if the concrete blocks are exposed. I think it's brick, or possibly clay tile, I know it's not metal.

If it is moisture migrating though the clock and out the joints, it's far from happening at every joint. Most of them are in good shape, and it's only the thin, gruel-like coating (stucco wash or texture paint) that makes it look bad. But, a few joints have had chips of mortar break out of them.

Another indicator is the interior basement wall. It's really more of a full-height, dirt floor, "crawl" space, and the block walls are exposed. It forms the fourth wall of the chimney; the other three are an exterior projection from the foundation wall. The interior of the block wall at the chimney is damp after it rains.

It's been there for over 30 years, and has looked exactly the same in the 16 years I have owned it, so I don't think it's in any danger of falling down.

I had a mason who specializes in decorative stone facings look at it about 10 years ago, and he recommended tearing it down to the firebox and building it back up again before facing it. However, he considered himself an "artist" and wouldn't do the block work. We got involved in some other priorities and let it slide. But, now, the wood shake roof needs to be replaced (it was shingled with siding shingles rather than roof shingles, that dad-blasted contractor, again). We're planning on a metal roof, and would do the chimney work at the same time.

Now that we've got our rural acreage, we no longer have the desire to "get away" from our neighbors, and will likely sell the cabin. I have 3 choices. (1) Do nothing, discount the price for the work, and let the next owner do it the way they want it. (2) Do good repair work, get the increased value (it would be such a dramatic improvement that I should get a much larger return than the cost), and be able to sleep at night, knowing that the repairs will last. (3) Do just enough to make it look good and get the increased value at a lower cost. I would have difficulty doing this. All of the other work I have done on the cabin has been done "right" without much regard to cost. If I do the roof and chimney right, someone would get a very nice little cabin. I'll make a bundle regardless; prices have increased dramatically over 16 years.

I'm not sure if the damper was cast iron or heavy sheet metal; I'm trying to recall what it felt like the last time I reached up in there and manipulated it. The mechanism is broken, but I can still prop the damper plate up in full open mode, or lay it flat on the framework. If it was cast, then it wasn't very thick or heavy. The throat is formed with masonary.

It probably doesn't help, but I just found this picture of the hearth.
 

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/ Cinder block chimney repair
  • Thread Starter
#13  
I want to install a metal roof as well. So, I want to get the chimney fixed before I tackle that.
Can anyone direct me to some sites that would show these faux stone coverings. I really have never seen them.
 
/ Cinder block chimney repair #15  
if you are doing it to sell I would have someone insure do it and not do it myself. That way "if" something did happen (it is very tall) it would be their problem and not yours
 
/ Cinder block chimney repair #16  
I think you are probably right. If the cap is bad the water is getting inside and working its way out even to the inside wall you described. If you had flashing leaking there would more than likely be a lot more water than you describe. I would have the flashing looked at though just to rule it out.

If the damper were cast iron then it would be quite thick, maybe 1/4". A steel damper is much thinner. Both can be replaced but the steel one can be much more difficult.
 
/ Cinder block chimney repair
  • Thread Starter
#17  
BAC,
Thanks,
That is exactly what I was looking for.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I have used a lot of Cultured Stone. You can look them up at www.culturedstone.com. )</font>
 

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