"Chrome hydraulic cylinder rods?

/ "Chrome hydraulic cylinder rods? #1  

varmint

Elite Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Messages
2,581
Location
Northern Maryland
Tractor
Kubota B8200, then a Kubota L3130 HST, now a Kubota L3400 HST
Stopped by the John Deere dealership this morning (they handle Stihl products, and I needed some chain files) and I noticed that had a good complement of new tractors out front. Being a Kubota man, I was just a bit curious to see what they looked like... I saw that every hydraulic rod was a dull gray, sort of like titanium- not bright chrome like I would expect. This was the coating, not a cover or protective film. What is this all about, and is it a new "standard"?
 
/ "Chrome hydraulic cylinder rods? #2  
As the article states, bright cosmetic chrome is softer than the induction hardened (gray) chrome.
 
/ "Chrome hydraulic cylinder rods?
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Interesting- I guess I would hope that Kubota would be induction hardening their rods... Like I said, the JD rods weren't shiny at all- almost a mat gray. Always learning. Thanks for the link.
 
/ "Chrome hydraulic cylinder rods? #4  
I would guess that the cylinder rods have been nitrided.
 
/ "Chrome hydraulic cylinder rods? #6  
I would guess that the cylinder rods have been nitrided.
This.

JD has been using these on the loaders for 20+ years. Backhoes and other options still have traditional chrome.
 
/ "Chrome hydraulic cylinder rods? #7  
Cylinder rods for agricultural use are normally induction hardened to a surface depth of 1/16" give or take and then plated with hard chrome for corrosion resistance. The case hardening provides resistance to dents and dings while supporting the hard chrome which normally is hair thin. The core of the rod remains "soft" and will normally bend significantly before breaking.

Nitriding, which is sometimes used in lieu of chrome plating, produces a dark finish on the cylinder rod. I suspect that the process is less expensive than hard chrome.

 
/ "Chrome hydraulic cylinder rods? #8  
Years ago I was at a seminar about hyd rod materials sponsored by Fluid Power Society.
It was an in-depth discussion about nitrited vs industrial hard chrome plated.
Several points were brought up about nitrited rods.
The Nitrite process is cheaper to produce hyd rods but removes the possibility to produce induction hardened product due to the intense heat and cool process of nitriding will anneal the induction hardened rod material. Industrial hard chrome does not effect the preprocessed induction hard surface when plating.
Nitrite manufacturers boast about corrosion protect but the salt spray test they use is not a real world test. Under a salt spray test high pressure salt sprayed the nitrite wins under those conditions but chrome plating in routine use gets its corrosion protection from being retracted into the cylinder to get bathed in oil, the chrome plating under a microscope is porous (the reason they corrode when not in use). CP rods being used routinely will out last nitrite.
Nitrite hyd rods cannot be polished during a repair without losing its outer coating. CP rods can be polished easily with no harm.
Two material tests on steel is tensile and yield strength. Yield strength is exceeded when steel bends under stress and stays bent. Tensile strength is exceeded when it snaps. Nitrided hyd rods have the tension and yield strengths near the same numbers. Chrome plated hyd rods will yield before they snap.
This is a big reason why you don’t see hydraulic rods on cranes, manlifts and bucket trucks with nitrided hyd rods. OEM’s would rather have a hyd rod bend during an overload instead of snapped causing severe personal and property damage. I have personally seen many nitrited rods that snapped, laying them out on a table it’s clear they snapped without a noticeable bend.
We build replacement hyd rods for many different industries in our busy hyd shop and I can say more than 50% of cylinders with nitrited hyd rods need replacement because of corrosion. We always change them back to hard chrome plated material with absolutely no issues.
Years ago one of my employees went to a local farm fair (Deerfield Fair, Deerfield NH) and two large John Deere distributors had machines on display. On one side of the road were all yellow industrial machines (excavators, dozers, backhoes etc). On the other all green JD ag equipment. My guy asked the salesman on the green side “why doesn’t JD use chrome plated hyd rods on the green equipment?”. His response was “Oh, it’s much better”. My guys response, “OK then why are all the rods on the yellow equipment chrome plated?”
 
/ "Chrome hydraulic cylinder rods? #9  
... why are all the rods on the yellow equipment chrome plated?”

I had a JD110 TLB (Construction yellow Sold by both ag and construction dealers at the time.) It had chrome rods. The most similar green ag model did not.
 
/ "Chrome hydraulic cylinder rods? #10  
Years ago I was at a seminar about hyd rod materials sponsored by Fluid Power Society.
It was an in-depth discussion about nitrited vs industrial hard chrome plated.
Several points were brought up about nitrited rods.
The Nitrite process is cheaper to produce hyd rods but removes the possibility to produce induction hardened product due to the intense heat and cool process of nitriding will anneal the induction hardened rod material. Industrial hard chrome does not effect the preprocessed induction hard surface when plating.
Nitrite manufacturers boast about corrosion protect but the salt spray test they use is not a real world test. Under a salt spray test high pressure salt sprayed the nitrite wins under those conditions but chrome plating in routine use gets its corrosion protection from being retracted into the cylinder to get bathed in oil, the chrome plating under a microscope is porous (the reason they corrode when not in use). CP rods being used routinely will out last nitrite.
Nitrite hyd rods cannot be polished during a repair without losing its outer coating. CP rods can be polished easily with no harm.
Two material tests on steel is tensile and yield strength. Yield strength is exceeded when steel bends under stress and stays bent. Tensile strength is exceeded when it snaps. Nitrided hyd rods have the tension and yield strengths near the same numbers. Chrome plated hyd rods will yield before they snap.
This is a big reason why you don’t see hydraulic rods on cranes, manlifts and bucket trucks with nitrided hyd rods. OEM’s would rather have a hyd rod bend during an overload instead of snapped causing severe personal and property damage. I have personally seen many nitrited rods that snapped, laying them out on a table it’s clear they snapped without a noticeable bend.
We build replacement hyd rods for many different industries in our busy hyd shop and I can say more than 50% of cylinders with nitrited hyd rods need replacement because of corrosion. We always change them back to hard chrome plated material with absolutely no issues.
Years ago one of my employees went to a local farm fair (Deerfield Fair, Deerfield NH) and two large John Deere distributors had machines on display. On one side of the road were all yellow industrial machines (excavators, dozers, backhoes etc). On the other all green JD ag equipment. My guy asked the salesman on the green side “why doesn’t JD use chrome plated hyd rods on the green equipment?”. His response was “Oh, it’s much better”. My guys response, “OK then why are all the rods on the yellow equipment chrome plated?”
Very interesting post! I'm wondering about the difference in core strength between the nitrided and hard chrome rods and why the nitrided rods would tend to snap instead of bend. Perhaps some hydrogen embrittlement in the nitriding process?
 
/ "Chrome hydraulic cylinder rods? #11  
Very interesting post! I'm wondering about the difference in core strength between the nitrided and hard chrome rods and why the nitrided rods would tend to snap instead of bend. Perhaps some hydrogen embrittlement in the nitriding process?
I see Brendon Casey talked about it
 
/ "Chrome hydraulic cylinder rods? #12  
I see Brendon Casey talked about it
But I'm wondering why a nitrided rod would have more tendency to break? Its as if the nitriding process creates microscopic stress risers in the rod surface. I am still, however, wondering about hydrogen embrittlement of the rod surface which is what some plating operations produce.
 
/ "Chrome hydraulic cylinder rods? #13  
JD only uses the black rods on the light duty tractors. None of the industrial machines from Deere or other manufacturers use them. That should tell you something.
 
/ "Chrome hydraulic cylinder rods? #14  
JD only uses the black rods on the light duty tractors. None of the industrial machines from Deere or other manufacturers use them. That should tell you something.
I’m seeing more newer plow equipment and a few refuse trucks using nitrited rods.
 
/ "Chrome hydraulic cylinder rods? #15  
Three more this week.
 

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/ "Chrome hydraulic cylinder rods? #17  

That is really bad. Get what you pay for.
Must be quite a bit cheaper than chrome for the manufacturer to fool with it.
Years ago I worked in a hydraulic shop as a weldor and also did rebuilds.
The majority of our work was from the coal mines.
 
/ "Chrome hydraulic cylinder rods? #19  
Lol……I’m not trying to bash JD, just OEM’s using cheap alternatives to increase their bottom line.
Yes, the nitriding is more eviro friendly during the manufacturing process, but so is using equipment that has a longer life expectancy instead of replacing early.
My Dad used to work for Buick Motor Div, one of his famous quotes was…..”Buick doesn’t make money on old cars, They make money on new cars, they only want it to make it through the warranty”.
 
/ "Chrome hydraulic cylinder rods? #20  
Not sure how “cheap” it is

My black rods have been way overloaded and left in weather without issue. Still look like new


I have only rusting chrome rods and have only had to repair broken chrome rods on my equipment

I doubt it matters much
 
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