Jim_the_Dirty
New member
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2003
- Messages
- 1
- Tractor
- Kubota Grand L 4310HST
Does anyone have any experience owning and/or operating one of the Chinese made bulldozers such as advertised by Northern Tool? Are they made by Jinma?
Chinese bulldozer
- Thread starter Jim_the_Dirty
- Start date
- Views: 35939
I don't know - although I've wondered the same thing. Not sure if you question was just a "curiosity" question or if you're thinking about getting a dozer. If it was the latter, l'd seriously suggest looking at spending your cash somewhere else.
Although it may (or may not) be a well built machine, it seems awful small and only geared to the lightest work out there. I suppose you could do **some** work with it, but for $15K, you should be able to get a reasonably good used dozer that can do a LOT more. "Size matters" when it comes to dozers!
The smallest current production Case is 14K lbs & smallest Cat is 17K lbs. Deere is also in the 17K lbs range. The closest I know of (and granted, I'm not a dozer expert) is the Komatsu D21 - but even it has 3000 lbs & 10 hp on the N.T. dozer - and you can find them in the $10K range for a nice used one.
I've found that while you can do things with a 14K # dozer, it is still far too light for my liking - lots of time and effort compared to what you can get done by going up in the weight class.
Although it may (or may not) be a well built machine, it seems awful small and only geared to the lightest work out there. I suppose you could do **some** work with it, but for $15K, you should be able to get a reasonably good used dozer that can do a LOT more. "Size matters" when it comes to dozers!
The smallest current production Case is 14K lbs & smallest Cat is 17K lbs. Deere is also in the 17K lbs range. The closest I know of (and granted, I'm not a dozer expert) is the Komatsu D21 - but even it has 3000 lbs & 10 hp on the N.T. dozer - and you can find them in the $10K range for a nice used one.
I've found that while you can do things with a 14K # dozer, it is still far too light for my liking - lots of time and effort compared to what you can get done by going up in the weight class.
JohnS
Platinum Member
The dozers are not made by Jinma. There has been some recent discussion on the CTOA Board. Sounds like there have been some recent improvements. Thinking of one myself, a year or two down the road.
PS: CTOA has been down most of today.
PS: CTOA has been down most of today.
EFC
Veteran Member
They are made Goulin and are very solid machines. I don’t sell them but I have used one so I can comment on them. I talk to people everyday that say any tractor under 50hp is useless and are not worth even building let alone buying. I imagine that same customer exists in dozer land also. I own a grey mkt Kamatsu D21 but the little Goulin dozer is the one that I can could get the most work out of. Far more powerful than a compact tractor but fits in smaller spots and does more intricate work. I can get across a lawn and not dig it up. The little dozer has a 3 point also with a live PTO. Check out http://www.boltonpowerequip.com/beast.htm or http://www.chinaimporters.com/dozer/ and you can get more info on them. Unless of coerce you need to knock down 200 year old redwood trees then I would look at something else.
JohnS -
If you're serious about getting a dozer, I'd suggest renting one in the size you think you want first. I'll bet that you'll probably discover that you really want something bigger than you first thought you wanted. (A lot like tractors in this respect)
I have nothing against Chinese tractors and again, the little dozer may be a well built machine - but that being said, it is just too small to handle anything more than tiny jobs. And unlike tractors, you aren’t just talking about the job taking longer - some things simply can’t be done with a small dozer. Small dozer=small job. Talk to a real catskinner out there - I bet he’ll say the same thing.
In addition to the size issue, I suspect you'd wind up taking a bath if you decide to sell it down the road, especially since people can get a MUCH bigger/capable machine with a name like Cat, Deere, or Case for the same price. A used "Golden Dragon" dozer or a used (and bigger by 30%) Komatsu for the same price? Seems like a no- brainer to me.
If you gotta go Chinese, there are bigger ones available that will offer you *much* more capability - 'course they'll cost more because I doubt you'll find many big used Chinese dozers out there - and of course your bath will be worse when you decide to get rid of it.
If you're serious about getting a dozer, I'd suggest renting one in the size you think you want first. I'll bet that you'll probably discover that you really want something bigger than you first thought you wanted. (A lot like tractors in this respect)
I have nothing against Chinese tractors and again, the little dozer may be a well built machine - but that being said, it is just too small to handle anything more than tiny jobs. And unlike tractors, you aren’t just talking about the job taking longer - some things simply can’t be done with a small dozer. Small dozer=small job. Talk to a real catskinner out there - I bet he’ll say the same thing.
In addition to the size issue, I suspect you'd wind up taking a bath if you decide to sell it down the road, especially since people can get a MUCH bigger/capable machine with a name like Cat, Deere, or Case for the same price. A used "Golden Dragon" dozer or a used (and bigger by 30%) Komatsu for the same price? Seems like a no- brainer to me.
If you gotta go Chinese, there are bigger ones available that will offer you *much* more capability - 'course they'll cost more because I doubt you'll find many big used Chinese dozers out there - and of course your bath will be worse when you decide to get rid of it.
JohnS
Platinum Member
Ranchman,
I will be renting a 6 footer sometime this year. A long weekend rental to cut some hill trails and do touch-up on a dike. As you say, I will see if it does what I want. I won't spring for a larger one. I have to make some decissions on plans for certain property. It will drive me either to a dozer vs larger 2nd tractor purchase. Also, I would probably import my own, going through the hassle and additional risk to save additional $$. Just like my Jinma, I don't worry about resale of something that I won't be reselling, but understand your point.
I know some people get this size to be their hill tractor. ie do many of the tasks of a tractor but handle steeper grades. Here is a slightly older version of the dozer: Dick's Dozer
I will be renting a 6 footer sometime this year. A long weekend rental to cut some hill trails and do touch-up on a dike. As you say, I will see if it does what I want. I won't spring for a larger one. I have to make some decissions on plans for certain property. It will drive me either to a dozer vs larger 2nd tractor purchase. Also, I would probably import my own, going through the hassle and additional risk to save additional $$. Just like my Jinma, I don't worry about resale of something that I won't be reselling, but understand your point.
I know some people get this size to be their hill tractor. ie do many of the tasks of a tractor but handle steeper grades. Here is a slightly older version of the dozer: Dick's Dozer
EFC -
<font color="blue">Unless of coerce you need to knock down 200 year old redwood trees then I would look at something else </font>
Errr - uh, no.
it doesn't take a 200 year old redwood tree to stop a 6K, 9K, or even 14K dozer - not by a long shot. If it the 14K+ # dozers were such overkill then why would Cat and Case start at that size and go up from there??? Heck, even Komatsu starts at 9K #!
No, I can see where a tiny dozer may be good for as you say - "finesse work," (never even heard of someone worried about taking a dozer across their lawn!!! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif), but to imply that anything more (even a small D21) is overkill? This is simply not the case - not by a long shot.
If someone wants to do “finesse work” - a good CUT seems like a much more economic and flexible way to go if tiny jobs are all someone is after.
<font color="blue">Unless of coerce you need to knock down 200 year old redwood trees then I would look at something else </font>
Errr - uh, no.
it doesn't take a 200 year old redwood tree to stop a 6K, 9K, or even 14K dozer - not by a long shot. If it the 14K+ # dozers were such overkill then why would Cat and Case start at that size and go up from there??? Heck, even Komatsu starts at 9K #!
No, I can see where a tiny dozer may be good for as you say - "finesse work," (never even heard of someone worried about taking a dozer across their lawn!!! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif), but to imply that anything more (even a small D21) is overkill? This is simply not the case - not by a long shot.
If someone wants to do “finesse work” - a good CUT seems like a much more economic and flexible way to go if tiny jobs are all someone is after.
JohnS -
<font color="blue">hill tractor </font>
Hmm - interesting - never heard that verbiage before. I could see where it may be good for that, although dozers tip over too so just be careful - hate for you to get squished! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
I learned a lot by renting a dozer with regards to what size I really needed. I (uneducated at the time) had the delusions that a D21 would have worked for me. Needless to say, my rental experience (14K # range) educated me that even that was way too light for my needs. Again, I do not profess to be a dozer expert, but I've done enough dozer work that I'm not a "greenhorn" on the subject either.
Although I've had really good luck with a 55K# D7 on my place, something that size (reasonably new) is pretty expensive. Something in the 25-30K # range is much more capable without breaking the bank. 'Course, that's just me and my uses, but don't get the idea I'm building highways or reproducing Hoover Dam either - just your "typical" stuff - land clearing, road work, etc.
I guess all I'm saying is that I think folks who are new to dozers are a lot like folks who are new to tractors in that they tend to undersize for their needs. With a CUT, if you under size it, chances are you still will be able to accomplish the task (within reason of course), it will just take a lot longer and require a lot more effort. Unfortunately, with dozers it doesn't just wind up taking you longer if you under size (although that happens too). Under sizing a dozer purchase can easily prevent you from accomplishing the task you originally purchased the dozer to complete.
<font color="blue">hill tractor </font>
Hmm - interesting - never heard that verbiage before. I could see where it may be good for that, although dozers tip over too so just be careful - hate for you to get squished! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
I learned a lot by renting a dozer with regards to what size I really needed. I (uneducated at the time) had the delusions that a D21 would have worked for me. Needless to say, my rental experience (14K # range) educated me that even that was way too light for my needs. Again, I do not profess to be a dozer expert, but I've done enough dozer work that I'm not a "greenhorn" on the subject either.
Although I've had really good luck with a 55K# D7 on my place, something that size (reasonably new) is pretty expensive. Something in the 25-30K # range is much more capable without breaking the bank. 'Course, that's just me and my uses, but don't get the idea I'm building highways or reproducing Hoover Dam either - just your "typical" stuff - land clearing, road work, etc.
I guess all I'm saying is that I think folks who are new to dozers are a lot like folks who are new to tractors in that they tend to undersize for their needs. With a CUT, if you under size it, chances are you still will be able to accomplish the task (within reason of course), it will just take a lot longer and require a lot more effort. Unfortunately, with dozers it doesn't just wind up taking you longer if you under size (although that happens too). Under sizing a dozer purchase can easily prevent you from accomplishing the task you originally purchased the dozer to complete.
EFC
Veteran Member
I have run dozers my whole life and have run some from birth to death; we still have a few at the ranch. I know what dozers can do. I had some trees removed in my back yard and a swimming pool put in one corner. I have very limited access and there are weight restrictions on my street as there are on most streets in my town. Didn’t really matter I couldn’t get mine in the back yard anyway. I borrowed a Chinese dozer from another dealer, not only did I get all the stumps out but I dug the hole for the pool with that useless little dozer and when I was done it didn’t look like a war zone, still had most of a nice lawn. Small dozers have their place just like large dozers. Each has a purpose and there is no universal machine. Most of the guys who buy these are using them like John S said, they are on hilly slippery terrain and a tractor just isn’t heavy, stable or sturdy enough to do the job or they are landscape contractors that have weight and size restrictions to deal with. Don't know about resale but I don’t buy equipment for myself to sell it I buy it to use. The dealer I borrowed the dozer from sells out every time he gets a load as fast as he can assemble them, must be a market for them.
BarryinMN
Platinum Member
I just went through the evaluation as well. Ended up with a refurbished JD350 & 93 quik-tach backhoe.
Punched out a snowmobile trail with up to 6" saplings without even hesitating. Heard the snapping of the trunks above the exhaust.
Digging out & grooming swamp areas.
Sidehill mowing with a bushhog - stability is not an issue.
Park in a concrete floor barn without damage.
Push snow if the TLB won't go.
------
Transportable: on the way home I had a tire problem with the trailer... The Goodyear dealers first question was "what do you charge per hour?"
------
I drove a Northern Tool chinese machine in their Corp. HQ. Didn't think it was heavy enough to pull dump truck or tractor out of the mud. They have several low hour returns from West Coast landscapers - looked like minor problems complaints.
------
A bigger one may not make as many friends because of the transportation logistics, but you'll get dozer envy in any case...
And finally, remember if it breaks it's a hefty doorstop!
Punched out a snowmobile trail with up to 6" saplings without even hesitating. Heard the snapping of the trunks above the exhaust.
Digging out & grooming swamp areas.
Sidehill mowing with a bushhog - stability is not an issue.
Park in a concrete floor barn without damage.
Push snow if the TLB won't go.
------
Transportable: on the way home I had a tire problem with the trailer... The Goodyear dealers first question was "what do you charge per hour?"
------
I drove a Northern Tool chinese machine in their Corp. HQ. Didn't think it was heavy enough to pull dump truck or tractor out of the mud. They have several low hour returns from West Coast landscapers - looked like minor problems complaints.
------
A bigger one may not make as many friends because of the transportation logistics, but you'll get dozer envy in any case...
And finally, remember if it breaks it's a hefty doorstop!
