marrt
Platinum Member
Does anyone import those Chinese 2 wheel tractors that are so common over there? I'm talking about the type that looks like a BCS or old Gravely.
Chinese 2 wheel tractors
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DieselPower
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Don't have one and never have but years ago when I was in the Army and stationed in Korea that's about all I saw over there. We called them one eyed buffaloes. Had to be careful when driving on the road over there because when those guy's made a turn it was a 90 degree turn and unfortunately many of those turns were made directly in the path of a vehicle. They seemed to do rather well for all their rice patty farming needs.
bluechip
Veteran Member
The chinese market ones use horizontal single sylinder diesel, with evaporative cooling. These engines are not EPA approved so not available in the states.
OP
marrt
Platinum Member
I'm pretty sure this is a copy of a Japanese design. Can companies still import Gray Market tractors or is that all over now? I visited the website of a VA gray market importer and he's just selling new Kubota's now.
The engines are Kubota Diesel (clones or license??? not sure) suitable for geberators boats etc, too.
They drive the tranny buy belt, like the Iseki or Honda walkbehinds.
engines are from 8-12 hp. Offered as DF or GN type by a lot of distributors (Infact there are onl 5 or 6 tractor brands and factories).
They also offer this smaller tillers with diesel engines, which are multipurpoose, too.
walking tractor Manufacturers & Suppliers
They drive the tranny buy belt, like the Iseki or Honda walkbehinds.
engines are from 8-12 hp. Offered as DF or GN type by a lot of distributors (Infact there are onl 5 or 6 tractor brands and factories).
They also offer this smaller tillers with diesel engines, which are multipurpoose, too.
walking tractor Manufacturers & Suppliers
bluechip
Veteran Member
When I was in Changzhou about 2 years ago, the DFAM factory had these up and down all the roads on the factory grounds. If I remember correctly, they produce over 150,000 per year and are the largest manufacturer of 2 wheel tractors. If there was a market, I supose we could get the tractors, less engines, and install a gas or diesel stateside. The chinese make a vertical diesel air cooled that might could be adapted, but I'm thinking the market is very small in the states.
OP
marrt
Platinum Member
Bluechip,
Thanks for the response. My profession is marketing and I also wonder if there's a market for these products in the US. For a full size tractor, I was always very reluctant to buy Chinese because a) I don't have a dealer close by if something breaks, b) I was worried about resale value if I didn't like it and c) I could buy a used branded tractor for a similar price.
But the situation is different with these tractors. The design is less complicated than a full size tractor. And the small size makes it easier to tackle repairs (remove wheels, engines, etc...). Also, the lower price means less money is "at risk" if I didn't like the tractor. Further, the competitive options (e.g., BCS) are very expensive. The price difference between a Chinese 2 wheel and BCS 2 wheel may be substantial. Also, the Chinese 2 wheel tractors have a LOT more capability than a conventional rototiller. For many folks, they are a nice alternative to a conventional tractor for garden and light field work.
Like so many things, I guess it comes down to price in the end. If the price were $1500 to $2500 with tiller, then I think there's probably a market. If the price is more...then I don't know.
Thanks for the response. My profession is marketing and I also wonder if there's a market for these products in the US. For a full size tractor, I was always very reluctant to buy Chinese because a) I don't have a dealer close by if something breaks, b) I was worried about resale value if I didn't like it and c) I could buy a used branded tractor for a similar price.
But the situation is different with these tractors. The design is less complicated than a full size tractor. And the small size makes it easier to tackle repairs (remove wheels, engines, etc...). Also, the lower price means less money is "at risk" if I didn't like the tractor. Further, the competitive options (e.g., BCS) are very expensive. The price difference between a Chinese 2 wheel and BCS 2 wheel may be substantial. Also, the Chinese 2 wheel tractors have a LOT more capability than a conventional rototiller. For many folks, they are a nice alternative to a conventional tractor for garden and light field work.
Like so many things, I guess it comes down to price in the end. If the price were $1500 to $2500 with tiller, then I think there's probably a market. If the price is more...then I don't know.
Heywood Jannockitov
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Maybe the lack of acceptance of 2 wheelers in NA it is a cultural thing. I, personally would prefer to sit on and drive something rather than walking behind it. That said, you can attach a sulky like the old Gravelys. I'm sure I could make use of one if I was given one. I checked the web link out. There is even a miniature ROUND BALER!! available for them 
Soundguy
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I'd love to get one.. last time my wife was in china hey wear all over.. had sulkies or carts on them and they drove them down the road.. My wife wants one like that with a cart she can drive around the farm... ironically.. she likes them.. but not a tractor.. go figure...
soundguy
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js5020
Platinum Member
I have even seen a small "combine" mounted on them. My guess is won't see any/too many here in the states,, just no real market in my opinion,,,and if the engines are not EPA approved, well that seals it. I have seen some of those type engines on ebay? or are they different?? To have any chance of success in the states they would need to be multi purpose machines, like the competion, not everyone could keep it busy in tillage jobs,, I put many more hours on my Gravely cutting grass than tillage chores,,, and besides who wants to walk around for hours in the blazing hot summer sun cutting grass besides me? They do look like real beasts!
The Gravely maybe multipurpoose, but the tiller mounted in front is not the best solution.
On european/japanese walkbehinds you have to turn the bars for 180ï½°, so that you can mount a tiller in back or a mower in front. For finish mowers, there are not very common. If mowing, then sickle bar.
agria.de
more or less this chinese are tractors for small operations and the owner maybe is happy, that he owns a motorized helper.
I donï½´t think, that they do any cutting of lawn with it.
Otherwise, I donï½´t se a problem, with walking behind a mower or a tiller. For most work it makes no sense to use/own a rideon.
On the otherside do you have the fortake, that a chinese compacttractor is awfully cheap in the USA. you have to pay a much lower price, then we have here.
This unit:
Traktor Europard 254A 23 PS Neu mit Tüv und 2 Jahren Garantie
should cost appr. 13000 US$ and it was lowered from 14500 US$. casue it will not sell.
On european/japanese walkbehinds you have to turn the bars for 180ï½°, so that you can mount a tiller in back or a mower in front. For finish mowers, there are not very common. If mowing, then sickle bar.
agria.de
more or less this chinese are tractors for small operations and the owner maybe is happy, that he owns a motorized helper.
I donï½´t think, that they do any cutting of lawn with it.
Otherwise, I donï½´t se a problem, with walking behind a mower or a tiller. For most work it makes no sense to use/own a rideon.
On the otherside do you have the fortake, that a chinese compacttractor is awfully cheap in the USA. you have to pay a much lower price, then we have here.
This unit:
Traktor Europard 254A 23 PS Neu mit Tüv und 2 Jahren Garantie
should cost appr. 13000 US$ and it was lowered from 14500 US$. casue it will not sell.
js5020
Platinum Member
Hey Mac, good to see you again,, your absolutely right on the Gravely front mount tiller,, but then what is refered to as "the Gravely tiller" is not a tiller in the sense that most of us associate to be a tiller, which would be a primary tillage attachment capable of groundbreaking activities, The proper application of the Gravely implement is a cultivator, a rotary cultivator as I'm sure guys like you and I already know these details, groundbreaking activities were meant by Gravely to be taken up by the rotary plow, which in essence is a verticle tiller. The problem with the marketability in my opinion is not many here in the states have a garden, yes there would be a niche market to some of us as a tillage machine but on a general plane the demand for such a machine would be limited and take into consideration the why walk behind a heavy duty lifetime machine, when I can ride on a cheap piece of tin that can be replaced when one gets tired of it, or when the lack of care takes it's toll,,,, anyways I don't think the general populace of the US is interested in 2 wheel machines or we would already see it today. How's things across the "pond"? Get any new additions to your fleet of 2 wheelers?
js5020
Platinum Member
Well heres another use for these machines,, a mini combine YouTube - Prabhavi-Technofarm mini combine harvester-1
Hi JS...
shame on me...I have made my mouth full and fighted for the walkbehinds, but added a small fourwheel tractor.
I have organized a 20 hp Xingtai, a tiller, a flailmower and a plow. Itï½´s a Diesel while all my walkbehinds are gassers.
I have bought it for doing custom tilling and mowing on larger spaces and in case that we could get possibility to expand the vegetables.
My 2 wheelers are older and it is hard, if not impossible, to get a used mower for them. I have made experience with sicklebar mowers like in the Agria link, but as we donï½´t need the grass for feeding it makes no sense.
If I would buy a 2wheeled implement carrier, I could spend 8000 USD with ease and donï½´t have any attachments.
On the otherside, I never would sell my walkbehinds, exepted maybe the Agria 400 with frontsweeper, which I have used for cleanup the sidewalks around the house after snow.
But that less snow that we have had the last few years makes it possible to work with broom and shovel.
I guess that you are right with Your statement about the 2wheelers in USA. There is too much stuff on the market, which can be added to rideonmowers( i.E. tillers). The rideon mowers are much cheaper then overhere and compared to a BCS, which seems very popular in the USA, the BCS is too expenisve.
shame on me...I have made my mouth full and fighted for the walkbehinds, but added a small fourwheel tractor.
I have organized a 20 hp Xingtai, a tiller, a flailmower and a plow. Itï½´s a Diesel while all my walkbehinds are gassers.
I have bought it for doing custom tilling and mowing on larger spaces and in case that we could get possibility to expand the vegetables.
My 2 wheelers are older and it is hard, if not impossible, to get a used mower for them. I have made experience with sicklebar mowers like in the Agria link, but as we donï½´t need the grass for feeding it makes no sense.
If I would buy a 2wheeled implement carrier, I could spend 8000 USD with ease and donï½´t have any attachments.
On the otherside, I never would sell my walkbehinds, exepted maybe the Agria 400 with frontsweeper, which I have used for cleanup the sidewalks around the house after snow.
But that less snow that we have had the last few years makes it possible to work with broom and shovel.
I guess that you are right with Your statement about the 2wheelers in USA. There is too much stuff on the market, which can be added to rideonmowers( i.E. tillers). The rideon mowers are much cheaper then overhere and compared to a BCS, which seems very popular in the USA, the BCS is too expenisve.
js5020
Platinum Member
Hey Mac,, spiffy looking little tractor ya got there, looks like just the right size! Still got the IH? I contemplated a new BCS,, we can get the 853 series here for around 3300 for just the tractor with the 13 hp Honda, not to bad a price but then you have to add the implements,,,, I figured before to replace all the Gravely stuff it would run me around 10k, don't think I need to buy every attachment I have for the Gravely so I could cut the price down to probably 6k,, but the Gravely is working great so why tie up the cash?
Off course, we own the IH still. Junior and his buddies had make renovation on a cart, like construction companies have them here. so they visit tractor shows.
We wanted to replace it by a IH 644, which has the same engine, but other tranny and newer design:
After we have taken it home, we decided to keep the 624. Later on, the thought was, to sell it and turn a bit money out of the deal, cause a new tractor should have a cab then, so that we can use it for hauling wood in wintertime, too.
The 644 was sold then, now we will have a look for a cabed tractor, maybe a Renault or something like that, 70-75 hp..
Th price of the BCS sounds ok...but 2600 € (app.3300 US$) is a lot of bucks, but it is expensiver if You would buy them here. The Honda is a very good engine, maybe You should have a look at the Yanmar, but I don´t know difference in price between Diesel and Regular fuel. Here it is 3-4 US ct and the resale value of a Diesel is better then for a Gasser.
ok..most Agria, but take a look at the prices, if they have 13 hp:
MotorLand.net
ObjectPath=/Shops/Motorland/Categories/17_DE
The market is much larger, but BCS is not a big player here. A lot of used ones are offered.
Often cheap. All my walkbehinds I have bought used.
We wanted to replace it by a IH 644, which has the same engine, but other tranny and newer design:
After we have taken it home, we decided to keep the 624. Later on, the thought was, to sell it and turn a bit money out of the deal, cause a new tractor should have a cab then, so that we can use it for hauling wood in wintertime, too.
The 644 was sold then, now we will have a look for a cabed tractor, maybe a Renault or something like that, 70-75 hp..
Th price of the BCS sounds ok...but 2600 € (app.3300 US$) is a lot of bucks, but it is expensiver if You would buy them here. The Honda is a very good engine, maybe You should have a look at the Yanmar, but I don´t know difference in price between Diesel and Regular fuel. Here it is 3-4 US ct and the resale value of a Diesel is better then for a Gasser.
ok..most Agria, but take a look at the prices, if they have 13 hp:
MotorLand.net
ObjectPath=/Shops/Motorland/Categories/17_DE
The market is much larger, but BCS is not a big player here. A lot of used ones are offered.
Often cheap. All my walkbehinds I have bought used.
js5020
Platinum Member
The gas/diesel thing,,,, A yanmar/lombardini equipped version of the same model would run around 4700. If I were seriously looking to purchase one I'm not sure I would go with the diesel, bout a 1.4k upcharge,, not thinking it's worth it for that kind of money. I could buy a spare engine and/or lots of gas for that kind of upcharge and not have to deal with cold start issues, the extra vibration, possible machine unbalance, propritary and expensive replacement parts, additional maintenence, downtime waiting for parts as few if any small engine dealers in my area would stock parts for the diesels. I may be wrong (and have been before) but in this size engine I don't see a savings with these price points and I haven't seen diesel cheaper than gasoline in years, and every station has gas, few have diesel. I really don't think the diesel is worth it overall in this size engine?
wondering that it is so hard to buy Diesel overthere. Here You can buy Diesel at every station, cause a lot of german cars are Diesel and I only knew one craftsman which has VW Transporter with gasengine. Wife owns a Skoda Fabia, I have Peugeot Expert and Ford Transit Van, all the cars are Diesel. We have bought them, cause of the better fuel economy. The skoda runs on appr. 4 litres/ 100 km which is appr. 60mpg.
The cheaper Diesel makes it easy to make decission for it, when you do high mileage or pulling trailers.
The Vibrations are not more then on a gasser and here in Germany Parts for Diesel engines are easy to get. Yes, the price difference between Diesel/Gasengine is a point to be thinking about. But noone would sell his Diesel walkbehind without any need of it.
Meanwhile we can buy PUｴs and SUV`s here, too. Japanese and corean mostly, offcourse german Mercedes, BMW or Porsche, too. But 98 % of them are sold with Diesel engines.
There is a Ford Explorer running in village, fine kind of stuff inded, owned by an employee of the Cologne Ford plant. It has a LPG Tank mounted, cause of the high fuelconsume (ok, we donｴt have this 55mph here, motorways donｴt have speedlimit) and the lower price for LPG, which is apprl 55 ?ct/l.
The cheaper Diesel makes it easy to make decission for it, when you do high mileage or pulling trailers.
The Vibrations are not more then on a gasser and here in Germany Parts for Diesel engines are easy to get. Yes, the price difference between Diesel/Gasengine is a point to be thinking about. But noone would sell his Diesel walkbehind without any need of it.
Meanwhile we can buy PUｴs and SUV`s here, too. Japanese and corean mostly, offcourse german Mercedes, BMW or Porsche, too. But 98 % of them are sold with Diesel engines.
There is a Ford Explorer running in village, fine kind of stuff inded, owned by an employee of the Cologne Ford plant. It has a LPG Tank mounted, cause of the high fuelconsume (ok, we donｴt have this 55mph here, motorways donｴt have speedlimit) and the lower price for LPG, which is apprl 55 ?ct/l.
js5020
Platinum Member
I'm not sure why things are the way they are here,, it use to be diesel was cheaper per gallon, but not anymore diesel is around 1 buck higher, give or take,, I was reading an article where they were comparing a 10 yr old diesel verses a newer gas version of the same model and they did the numbers,, the diesel came out losing cost wise, was there some bias to the article?? maybe? maybe not? I do know there are short term costs/benefits and longer term costs/benefits,, the fuel consumption of a diesel engine is uncontested when comparing apples to apples, but when they have the cost of diesel above gas well you start to lose that advantage, yes you burn less but at a higher cost per gallon,, and other than demand I don't understand why diesel is higher, I was always under the assumption it cost less to produce diesel?? There are some road taxes, but I don't consume enough to make it worth the effort to get them removed. I have both diesel and gas equipment,, all my stuff under 20 hp is gas and will stay gas because of "hard" costs (basically engine replacement cost). I'm also making a move to smaller/different type equipment to maintain the property.
