check your antifreeze

[inthe country]

2016 Kioti CK3510 antifreeze change. I emptied the radiator with the plug on the side, emptied the reservoir bottle and disconnected the lower radiator hose. I then filled with fresh water and ran to warm up, then I drained it as before. I mixed Shell Rotella 50/50 with fresh water and filled the radiator.

I've used the tractor and all seemed fine, but when I checked the antifreeze again its only good for -7 not the -37 you should get with a 50/50 mix. Apparently there is enough water left in the engine when you drain it to seriously affect the freeze point of the antifreeze. I don't have a service manual does it have further instructions on draining the radiator? Is there something I missed? I know I will not trust the owner's manual anymore.

I've drained the radiator again and filled with 50/50 mix and tested to be sure it's -37. I'm waiting for it to cool down so I can test again. I will probably have to buy more Rotella and use it straight to get the right freeze point.

 

[coldsteelva]

Make sure you had the straight concentrate and not the 50/50 pre-mix. If you mixed water with what was already 50% water, then you got a 75/25 water to glycol mix which is why the freeze point isn't that low. Buy 50/50 or by concentrate and dilute it yourself.

 

[Ford850]

Usually there's also an engine block drain. Look along either side for a plug head or petcock.
When I changed the antifreeze for the first time in the Ford 850 after buying it years ago, I could tell I wasn't getting a full drain. Then I found the petcock on the side of the block and was shocked to see soupy 'mud' ooze out. I did several thorough flushes and it finally was draining good and clear. It's remained clean on each change after that too. Apparently that block drain wasn't used for years, if ever, in it's first 45 years.

 

[Thomas]

Yup getting to be that time of year again...set mine for -25F.

 

[inthe country]

I started with pure antifreeze and mixed it 50/50. It was not already 50/50. I just refilled with the extra fluid I had left over it tested at -37, after warming it up so it would mix and letting it cool down it tested just below -20. I can only conclude there is a good sized part of the block that does not drain. I see several freeze plugs but no drain plugs on the engine block. The owner's manual does not address any drain other than the one on the radiator. That book is truly sad. I would email Kioti, but I've never received a reply for any email I've sent to Kioti.

If you changed your antifreeze make sure to check it again. At -7 my block would have been toast. Our record low is -34.

 

[LouNY]

When I drain and flush mine I use the air hose to blow out the engine all I can, that when I start filling I add straight 100% coolant to at least 60% of my radiators capacity, then I continue to fill with a 60-40 mix I would rather be a bit over strength than any thing under.

 

[ritcheyvs]

The fresh-water flush will help clean out any crud but it always leaves fresh water trapped in the engine. So compute and add the required amount of 100% anti-freeze (based on coolant capacity) to get your 50-50 mix and then top up with water. Recheck coolant level (after running the engine at temp and letting it cool) in case trapped air prevented a complete fill.

 

[oosik]

My tractor cooling system is two and a half gallons. After draining and flushing - I pour one gallon and one quart of unmixed antifreeze into the radiator. I then add distilled water to complete the fill up. This way I am guaranteed to get protection down to around -40F.

Also the way I do this - makes absolutely no difference how much water might be trapped wherever - I got the 50% quantity of undiluted antifreeze into the cooling system. So the undiluted antifreeze can mix with the trapped water and the distilled water I add and the result will always be a 50/50 mix or better.

You add 50/50 premix - the amount of trapped water will make a difference.

 

[RandyT]

I have several cases over the past 15 years where I would purchase the concentrated prestone antifreeze, dump half into another jug, and then fill both back full with water, and shake the jug, and then test with the freeze gauge, and it would also register -10 or so with more than one gauge. Asked a few people that should know and was told the concentrate is a 85/15 mix not full concentrate. I mostly just use the 50/50 anymore,

 

[Looking4new]

I use the drain on the bottom of the rad. When the juice stops flowing, close the drain and fill the rad with concentrate right to the top. Run the engine for a bit to warm up, shut down and top off the tank and rad with water. I get a constant -55 every time. I have done it this way for years. I haven't cracked a block yet, touch wood.

 

[JimR]

About antifreeze, why do people change antifreeze so often when it really doesn't need to be changed. I worked as a mechanic for over 10 years and still wrench a lot of things when needed. I can't ever recall changing good antifreeze for no good reason. My wife had a 1999 Acura 3.2 TL aluminum block motor. We bought the car in 2002 with 49K on it. We sold this car this year with about 218K miles on it. I think I added antifreeze around 120K when I replaced the timing belt and water pump. I never flushed out the system or replaced all of it. The same goes for two Chevy Blazers that I owned and sold with around 175K on them years prior and many other vehicles that we have owned over the years. Trust me, I already know what the experts say and how often that you need to change it out. Just like telling you that you need to change your engine oil in your daily driver every 3000 miles.

 

[xcgreene]

About antifreeze, why do people change antifreeze so often when it really doesn't need to be changed. I worked as a mechanic for over 10 years and still wrench a lot of things when needed. I can't ever recall changing good antifreeze for no good reason. My wife had a 1999 Acura 3.2 TL aluminum block motor. We bought the car in 2002 with 49K on it. We sold this car this year with about 218K miles on it. I think I added antifreeze around 120K when I replaced the timing belt and water pump. I never flushed out the system or replaced all of it. The same goes for two Chevy Blazers that I owned and sold with around 175K on them years prior and many other vehicles that we have owned over the years. Trust me, I already know what the experts say and how often that you need to change it out. Just like telling you that you need to change your engine oil in your daily driver every 3000 miles.

If folks tested their coolant, I think we'd see a lot less coolant changes. But as contaminants ingress over many years, for any number of reasons, problems arise. If the color is good, alkalinity and PH are correct, and glycol amount is sufficient for my area, I will not change.

 

[ritcheyvs]

About antifreeze, why do people change antifreeze so often when it really doesn't need to be changed. I worked as a mechanic for over 10 years and still wrench a lot of things when needed. I can't ever recall changing good antifreeze for no good reason. My wife had a 1999 Acura 3.2 TL aluminum block motor. We bought the car in 2002 with 49K on it. We sold this car this year with about 218K miles on it. I think I added antifreeze around 120K when I replaced the timing belt and water pump. I never flushed out the system or replaced all of it. The same goes for two Chevy Blazers that I owned and sold with around 175K on them years prior and many other vehicles that we have owned over the years. Trust me, I already know what the experts say and how often that you need to change it out. Just like telling you that you need to change your engine oil in your daily driver every 3000 miles.

Almost all antifreeze is ethylene glycol plus additives. A less toxic alternative is polypropylene glycol plus additives. The actual glycol doesn't wear out but the additives do and that's the reason it needs to be changed every few years. Additives lubricate for the water pump and prevent corrosion. Old antifreeze won't freeze but it may damage the water pump and will not prevent corrosion.

 

[ruffdog]

Almost all antifreeze is ethylene glycol plus additives. A less toxic alternative is polypropylene glycol plus additives. The actual glycol doesn't wear out but the additives do and that's the reason it needs to be changed every few years. Additives lubricate for the water pump and prevent corrosion. Old antifreeze won't freeze but it may damage the water pump and will not prevent corrosion.

I have read that a glycol antifreeze is good for about 12 years or more. Also, do not mix the two (PG and EG) glycol coolants.
http://www.veoliawatertech.com/crownsolutions/ressources/documents/2/21823,Glycol.pdf

 

[ruffdog]

You also need different testers for EG and PG coolants.

 

[jrskblx125]

there are differences between freeze point and burst point. example: an outdoor chiller unit with an open tank, we can run at 30% propylene glycol no problem in massachusetts and we see temps down to -10 in winter. i mean technically, the glycol will slush up as it reaches its freeze point, but will not expand much until it gets much colder.

ethylene glycol, at 40-75% concentration, has a BURST point of -60 F. the FREEZE point is -13F at 40%. a good target is always 50% because its easy to achieve in such a small volume.

seeing as your engine cooling system is open to atmosphere and not under pressure while cold, you could theoretically run 30% and you would have burst protection down to -14F.

 

[jrskblx125]

should follow up that the water pump isnt designed to move slush though haha. but you dont need to worry about cracking a block.

 

[gb6049]

Got to put a new fan belt and radiator hoses on my '67 in the next few days and plan to replace the coolant since I have no idea when the last time it was changed since I bought it last year.

 

[DieselBound]

I'd heard someone mention checking pH. I suspect that the primary additives are for guarding against corrosion, in which case pH would be a good way to test against: take new antifreeze and check pH and then use that as the reference. How much degradation is OK is the real question. I'd been meaning to test this but haven't gotten around to it.

 

[jrskblx125]

I'd heard someone mention checking pH. I suspect that the primary additives are for guarding against corrosion, in which case pH would be a good way to test against: take new antifreeze and check pH and then use that as the reference. How much degradation is OK is the real question. I'd been meaning to test this but haven't gotten around to it.

I do water treatment for a living and test plenty of glycol loops. Inhibited glycol mixed to 30-35% generally will run from 8.3-9.0. Increase it to 50% its usually just around 9.0.

In industry, ive seen 20 year unchanged propylene glycol. Ethylene should last longer. It really depends on the heat load though. This place was cooling vacuum furnaces so the temps were like that of a motor.

In my opinion something like ethylene glycol would be on a 10 year changeout cycle in a motor. And even then probably wouldnt need it but its easy enough.